HR Then and Now: An Illuminating Education - Ep 1 of 5 of FITI HR Series: The Good, the Bad, and the Potential

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:15:11 Stephanie You're listening to From Illumination to Innovation, a revealing and provocative exploration of the rapidly shifting landscape of values, purpose, leadership and culture, both corporate and social. I'm your host, Stephanie Crain 00:00:15:13 - 00:00:31:18 Shaniqua And I'm your host, Shaniqua Brown. We're excited to have you join us as we shine a light on new perspectives, amplify voices of influence, and elevate bright ideas that will expand your idea of what's possible in business and beyond. 00:00:31:18 - 00:01:20:20 Stephanie Hi, everybody. Welcome back to our podcast From Illumination to Innovation. My name is Stephanie Crain also known as Corporate Mystic and I'm the owner of Tapas Innovation and one of your hosts. Today, I am really excited - I’m probably always really excited, but today I am really excited because this is the first episode kicking off a series that we're doing focusing on human resources, HR, and today's episode is really, an exploration and educational, learning episode where we are going to look at HR: Then and Now and learn a little bit more about the history of HR, what's happened with it and how we have come. 00:01:20:20 - 00:01:30:16 Stephanie You know, where we've come to today. We have a fantastic guests, and I'm going to toss it to Shaniqua, my awesome host, and let her tell you all about our guest. 00:01:30:18 - 00:01:59:21 Shaniqua Hi everyone. I'm Shaniqua Brown, the founder and talent strategist of Elevated TA, and today we're here with our esteemed guests, Prudence Pitter, and if you're out there and you wander about what is HR? What is the function of HR? This episode is for you. We have Prudence to help us uncover. exactly what HR is. Prudence, would you share a little bit about yourself with our audience? 00:01:59:23 - 00:02:21:23 Prudence Yes. Thank you Stephanie. Thank you. Shaniqua. It's such an honor to be your first guest to kick off this season. this is really exciting. And I started to be a little bit offended to be the guest to talk about then and now. I'm like, don't age me. But then I'm also honored, right, that I have that experience. to share 00:02:22:01 - 00:02:26:02 Shaniqua No ageism, you know, it’s all in reverence... 00:02:26:02 - 00:02:49:12 Prudence It's it's all or it's all experience. Right. But thank you so much again for the opportunity. Been in the air space for, for a little over 27 years, started in not for profit and worked my way through hospitality. Spent most of my career in the hospitality space. So, I've held global H.R leadership roles in hotel groups and restaurant groups. 00:02:49:14 - 00:03:10:22 Prudence And most recently I was with Health and Fitness for about five years. And then COVID led me to tech. So I'm currently in a role in the technology industry for the last three years, and I've had the pleasure of leading functions. That's it, and in three different geos around the world and all of the the things that come with that. 00:03:10:22 - 00:03:40:14 Prudence So, you know, 27 years ago, in the not-for-profit space that today being in technology and certainly many journeys along along the way. Taught HR for about nine years, developed a couple of courses in HR and taught them and also spent some time consulting on two different coasts in the United States. So it certainly is a pleasure to talk through some of what I've seen, some of what I've done, and and where HR is today. 00:03:40:14 - 00:04:05:07 Shaniqua Prudence, you have such a wealth of knowledge and experience, and I love your journey through various industries. Stephanie, I met Prudence a few months ago. She reached out to me on LinkedIn to invite me to, the mentoring group that, she, like, created. It's, the Black Female HR Professionals, and we meet monthly and Prudence each month. 00:04:05:11 - 00:04:25:05 Shaniqua I feel like more motivated. I feel seen, heard and valued and I learn more about, I feel like it's a safe space to actually share the things that I don't know, about HR and learn from peers. So thank you so much for holding space for us. 00:04:25:08 - 00:04:46:17 Stephanie Yeah, I just want to add to that too, like from just, you know, even just what you've told us here, learning about you and everything, Shaniqua said. And it's like, it's it's not just your experience. It's not just your wisdom, but you have a passion for what you do, and you, you know, you really claim and empower other people, claim that passion and empower other people with it. 00:04:46:19 - 00:04:57:15 Stephanie And I think that that gives you just an, extra insight, that's very valuable. You know, and so I just wanted to honor that because I think that's really awesome. 00:04:57:17 - 00:05:36:08 Prudence Oh, I appreciate you you validating that. And thank you, Shaniqua, for sharing what you're getting from the group, because that's certainly the intent. So that makes me so very, so very happy. And I am from the mindset, let's not complain about what's not there. What can I do to make it available? And while I didn't have, strong female leaders and certainly black female leaders as mentors until later on in my career, I recognize the value of having that and have had that. 00:05:36:08 - 00:05:58:08 Prudence But also I recognize, the additional value that it could have made and the goodness that could have been available throughout my life if I had that early on. And so being able to provide that space and to have, leaders like yourself find value in it, it just warms my heart and motivates me and drives me to, to continue. 00:05:58:10 - 00:06:18:17 Shaniqua Prudence, we can have a separate conversation about identify, like finding mentorship, where you're safe and that look like that can empower you. because I have plenty of thoughts on that. And I'm just so grateful that you've come into my life. So say thank you, and let's actually segue into this conversation, Prudence. 00:06:18:19 - 00:06:19:20 Stephanie Because I'm excited. 00:06:19:22 - 00:06:31:06 Shaniqua I have so many questions. I love history, so this, like preparing for this episode actually just brought out the joy in me. So please forgive me in advance if I'm just like, I'm here to look at these. 00:06:31:06 - 00:06:37:08 Stephanie Honestly, I am. I am here to learn. Okay? I am so excited. 00:06:37:10 - 00:06:52:00 Shaniqua So there's like so much I want to break up. But Prudence, let's actually start out with the like, foundation of HR. And could you define HR for our audience and it like the functions and how these functions have evolved. 00:06:52:02 - 00:07:34:00 Prudence Yeah. So last year I had the pleasure of having pretty much front row seat at the 75th anniversary of the Society for Human Resources Management. And so while I started off in human resources in the 90s, when it was personnel, I really had a different mindset after leaving the SHRM conference last year because it was the 75th anniversary, there was quite a bit of education and history that was brought to that conference, down to how the walls were painted and pictures that were on the walls as we roamed through the halls and going from session to session. 00:07:34:02 - 00:07:57:14 Prudence But certainly the history was baked into the the core sessions that were on the main stages. So I thought I knew a lot about HR going in, and I left learning a lot about the history and what started off in, in the beginning. So HR as we know it today and human resources and the function on on people and strategy and culture, it didn't start off that way. 00:07:57:14 - 00:08:26:22 Prudence When it was personnel, it was very much focused on policy and procedures and individuals who view HR as the department that hires and fires aren't too far off. If they're thinking about back in the day. Right. Because that's very much the the function of HR. It was very much about who are the people that are needed to do the job and how do we manage the performance and when it's not working out right. 00:08:26:22 - 00:08:49:20 Prudence What are some of the ways to to exit individuals legally? Today, HR is very much, a focus on a seat at the table. Right. So what is the mission and the vision and the values of the organization? And how do the people processes align. So organizations that are focused on hiring and firing are way behind the times. 00:08:49:20 - 00:09:11:12 Prudence Right. Today we're really focused on what are some of the ways that we can ensure that we have the right people within the organization and when we have them, how do we develop them? Because so much is changing around us. So how are we focused on our people and helping them to level up? And how can we ensure that we're thinking about the whole person? 00:09:11:14 - 00:09:37:02 Prudence So everybody who comes to us at work, whether it's virtually, whether it's in person or whether it's a hybrid setup, how can we ensure that we're motivating and inspiring those individuals to do their best work? We all want to work for really successful organizations, whether that's a not-for-profit or an organization that's focused on revenue generation. But who are the people who are helping the organization get to the next stage? 00:09:37:07 - 00:09:56:02 Prudence And how are we breathing into their overall career and helping them to be whole while doing really good work? So the dictionary definition is somewhere out there. and then the answer is somewhere in that speech I just gave. 00:09:56:05 - 00:10:29:05 Stephanie How do you think, you know, from an employee perspective, where employees maybe have a limited, sort of perspective of what their organization is to begin with? And, and their definition of HR may have its own bias or influence. And when you talk about that kind of old school way of thinking of hiring and firing, it, from my perspective, it seems like leadership needs to be more vocal about not just HR being vocal about it, but leadership of organizations need to be more vocal about the value add that HR brings into the company. 00:10:29:07 - 00:10:58:11 Stephanie But from, you know, right now, if you're speaking to employees and you're helping them shift that hearing what you just said, but still shifting that mindset like, we're not here to be the hirers and firers for you. Like what? What would you say to the employee to help them wrap their mind? Because what I heard, I can hear it from a leadership perspective and be like, yeah, organizationally, if we're thinking about it from that perspective, we are behind the times, but the person who is trying to find a job, is thinking about it from that perspective. 00:10:58:13 - 00:11:04:11 Stephanie And, you know, so I'm just curious, like, if you could if you if you just have any thoughts on that. 00:11:04:13 - 00:11:25:05 Prudence Yeah. I was having lunch with a friend one day in a noisy restaurant. And the server, she knew him from somewhere else, and she introduced me and he heard my name and he said, nice to meet you. And then she went on to say, she's an HR and she's worked in restaurants. He didn't hear that. He heard HR. 00:11:25:07 - 00:11:45:22 Prudence He said, I hate HR. And, you know, she turns red like, oh my goodness. And I said, and I work in HR, tell me why you hate HR. And he turns red and I'm like, no, no, no, seriously, tell me why you hate HR. And the reasons that he gave were not too far fetched from what I've heard in the past. 00:11:45:22 - 00:12:15:08 Prudence Right. It's the manager who's not leading their team and blaming H.R for the work that they should be doing, and I use it as a small teachable moment to say to him, always fact check, right? If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. And if something sounds too far fetched, it probably is. And definitely leverage HR in a way, as far as this is not really sitting well with me, right? 00:12:15:08 - 00:12:42:23 Prudence Really look at HR is not the department that you go to to connect as you're coming into the organization. And then along the way, if benefits questions come up or if there's a situation where you're being exited or you're being, you know, receiving a performance improvement, document, but have career conversation fact check information, talk through some of the ways that your department can be better. 00:12:43:01 - 00:13:12:01 Prudence Many times, employees think of HR as the department that gives a survey, right? And they're reading. And I've had feedback from individuals and saying this question is lacking. Right. And this is where the question is lacking. So using that moment to teach that gentleman that I met that afternoon to say go to HR with suggestions, right. We don't have enough people coming to us with suggestions because there are too many people out there saying, I hate HR, they're a pain in the butt.. 00:13:12:01 - 00:13:27:02 Prudence And they wrote me up. Not recognizing that we don't have the full picture. We're getting it from somewhere. Share ideas, ask questions, and those are the ways that HR can influence changes that affect employees lives. 00:13:27:04 - 00:13:28:22 Stephanie So it's really about engagement. 00:13:29:00 - 00:13:49:20 Prudence Like really proactively we should be out there as HR leaders on the front line, right? Yeah, I got the foodie at heart. So when I was in restaurants you didn't have to tell me twice to be there. right. but realistically, right, being a part of when I was in health and fitness, it was so uncomfortable for me to be out on the floor in my workout clothes. 00:13:49:20 - 00:14:14:14 Prudence Right? Like sweating, knowing that I work here and that the employees who work there are seeing me like that. But it was important to me, right, to have them ask me afterwards, what did you think about that class? What do you think about, different things that were happening and for me to sit in the meetings with my leaders and say, you know, I took a class at 5:45 this morning and the lighting on that side of the parking lot is terrible. 00:14:14:16 - 00:14:30:11 Prudence So being able to get to know the employees, but also being able to help the organization be better by being on the front lines, helped me to be a better HR leader, but I can't be everywhere all at once. So employees engaging helps the organization as well. 00:14:30:11 - 00:14:38:12 Stephanie I really hope all the leaders took a 5:45 a.m. yoga class after you told them that. 00:14:38:14 - 00:14:42:12 Prudence Maybe not 5:45, but they probably looked at the cameras. 00:14:42:14 - 00:14:53:15 Stephanie And like they could all use a little like bliss. Okay, yeah, thank you for that. That was actually really insightful, and I and I appreciate you, sharing that with us. That was great. 00:14:53:17 - 00:15:23:05 Shaniqua I so I was googling and saying I am hungry. So I was googling and, I so a lot of articles out there are like emphasize 100 years of HR and I did some digging, found a peer reviewed, article by Fort Hays State University, and they actually pulled back like over 400 years of HR from a lens of labor. 00:15:23:07 - 00:15:50:07 Shaniqua And, so there were more to pull. There were four actual periods that were significant in a sense of labor. there's the pre-industrial period, high performance period. there was bureaucratic and there's also the paternalistic period, paternalistic period. So, game time! All right. 00:15:50:10 - 00:15:51:11 Stephanie I'm super excited. 00:15:51:11 - 00:15:52:12 Shaniqua Okay. 00:15:52:14 - 00:15:54:12 Prudence I now. 00:15:54:14 - 00:16:14:13 Shaniqua Okay. So Prudence, Stephanie, which period of HR do you think that we're in today. Is it Paternalist Period, High Performance Period Bureaucratic Period or Pre-Industrial Period. 00:16:14:15 - 00:16:23:17 Prudence I mean, I want to say paternalist, but I feel like we're in the high performance. 00:16:23:19 - 00:16:25:16 Shaniqua Which is your final answer? 00:16:25:18 - 00:16:28:21 Prudence My final answer. 00:16:28:23 - 00:16:29:17 Prudence Paternalist 00:16:29:22 - 00:16:31:08 Shaniqua okay. Okay. 00:16:31:10 - 00:16:37:17 Stephanie Yeah I am I'm struggling between the same exact two paternalist and high... But I'm going to go with high performance. 00:16:37:21 - 00:16:42:03 Shaniqua Okay. Well, actually I'm curious about your answers. Like, why? 00:16:42:05 - 00:17:08:17 Stephanie well, for me, I'm going with high performance. And in the context of what I see trending as it relates to leaderships, teams expectations around organizations like how are we able to be high performance individuals. And so I feel like that concept of high performance, which isn't overwork, high performance, isn't like burnout, like, because those are kind of the opposite. 00:17:08:17 - 00:17:23:05 Stephanie So that concept of high performance includes kind of whole self being all, so that's why I am I am at least in my mind, I feel like maybe we're not there, we're moving into that. But that's sort of why I pick. But I could easily have picked paternalistic because, you know, world. 00:17:23:10 - 00:17:28:15 Shaniqua And where are you going with it? patriarchy. Is that like paternalism? 00:17:28:17 - 00:17:32:15 Stephanie I don't know, so I don't know, but that's that's my gut one with high performance. And that was why. 00:17:32:18 - 00:17:34:18 Shaniqua So what about you, prudence? 00:17:34:20 - 00:17:52:09 Prudence Yeah. I don't think I would have add anything differently, Stephanie, as I was thinking of the two and as you went through and did the, the, the deep dive, if you will, on the reasons I feel like I resonated so strongly with your response that if I can, I want to switch my answer. 00:17:52:10 - 00:17:52:17 Shaniqua You're allowed to. 00:17:52:17 - 00:17:53:07 Prudence Over 00:17:53:07 - 00:17:58:15 Prudence To to high performing because I feel like it makes most sense.. 00:18:00:19 - 00:18:01:18 Prudence Well, all the things get. 00:18:01:23 - 00:18:04:18 Stephanie Super curious now, but wow, I know, I feel so honored. 00:18:04:18 - 00:18:08:07 Prudence I'm like, all right, enough waiting. Tell us you're both right. 00:18:08:08 - 00:18:15:13 Shaniqua It is high performance era. Okay, so let me break down. Let me break down these eras. There's so interesting. 00:18:15:13 - 00:18:16:16 Stephanie I'm super curious. 00:18:16:16 - 00:18:41:21 Shaniqua All right, so we're starting at 1600s from the 1600s. 1600 to 1780 was the pre-industrial period. Now, think we're talking about slaves, indentured servitude, contracts. And, then we move into the paternalistic period from 1780 to 1920. Now this is where we get the steam engine. 00:18:41:23 - 00:18:44:14 Stephanie that's very that's exactly what I was thinking about. 00:18:44:15 - 00:18:55:13 Shaniqua And guess what? Dangerous working conditions and then, Employment At Will, now, isn't that something interesting? It's unsafe. and we can fire you. 00:18:55:13 - 00:18:56:13 Prudence Take it or leave it leave it. Right. 00:18:56:14 - 00:18:58:19 Stephanie That's the paternalist era. What a lovely time. 00:18:58:19 - 00:19:42:00 Shaniqua So bureaucratic period is between the 1920s and 1970s. Now this is where academic research start to take hold of what motivates employees. I think of Maslow's theory like that's this period. And then we have unions. We have the Civil Rights Act being passed. And then 1970s, from for high performance. And here the article highlights the switch to high performance in employee empowerment and delegation, where this is this era is where employers realize, oh, wait, if you actually care about an employee, they will actually they'll work harder for you. 00:19:42:05 - 00:19:47:12 Shaniqua So this is a period that we're in, so you're both are correct the high performance era. Thank you so much for playing my game. 00:19:47:14 - 00:20:09:03 Prudence And I appreciate that so much. Right. And here you are thinking you came to learn for me. I would have actually flipped the, bureaucratic and paternalistic, not thinking about the years. Right. But thinking about what was happening. Like, I didn't have any context of the years. Right. I know it was long ago. but I would have actually flipped that. 00:20:09:03 - 00:20:27:19 Prudence But the way you've described, I thank you so much for the the, the education. It totally makes sense and I'm so glad that I switch. Thanks, Stephanie, for going first and and doing that overview, because I was like, yeah, now that I listen more closely, but I still would not have put paternalistic as so far back. I would agree. 00:20:27:19 - 00:20:28:10 Stephanie With that too. 00:20:28:10 - 00:20:30:09 Prudence Or closer to high performance. 00:20:30:10 - 00:20:36:23 Shaniqua I actually want to do some more digging into why they define it as paternalistic, because the same thing like I would have put bureaucratic before paternalistic. 00:20:36:23 - 00:20:49:11 Stephanie I mean, when you said it and you said it in the context of the time period, the very first thing I thought about was sort of the the, the barons, you know, of like, you know, and they were all like big whatever, big daddies. I mean. 00:20:49:16 - 00:20:52:13 Prudence I. 00:20:52:15 - 00:20:53:02 Shaniqua I don't know. 00:20:53:02 - 00:21:00:19 Stephanie How to say. It so yeah, it's just, you know, it just seems paternal I don't know. 00:21:00:21 - 00:21:02:07 Prudence Okay. Right. 00:21:02:09 - 00:21:16:22 Shaniqua So, Prudence, so considering your platform of employee well-being, how do you see, like, the historical periods influencing current HR practices in promoting organizational health? 00:21:17:00 - 00:21:40:13 Prudence Yeah. So you said it beautifully when you said employers are starting to recognize that if I treat employees well, they work harder. Right. And I see that even to today, I continue to have those conversations. And a peer of mine posted on LinkedIn insider earlier this week. Or sometime last week that, she has a surgery coming up. 00:21:40:13 - 00:22:03:01 Prudence She's had a lot of health issues over the past few months, and everything that she's been able to accomplish at work while going through that, and I reshared it to my platform because I thought that it just resonated so strongly. And I wanted to share with the leaders who follow me that one, an employee can take care of their health and do really awesome work, right? 00:22:03:02 - 00:22:33:00 Prudence Both can take place, and an employee who feels valued and supported will be able to do both. And I do believe that over time you talk about safety, right. And at will employment of come if you like. Right, and leave if you want. But we're not necessarily as focused on your safety. And then that started to change because employees recognize that they wanted to be in the in an environment that cared about their safety. 00:22:33:02 - 00:23:01:03 Prudence Now we're seeing more about the whole person and organizations needing to be more focused on what motivates an employee and what an employee needs to feel whole in and out of the workplace. Because what's happening in an employee's life outside of the workplace affects them at work, right? Those employees who are going through a divorce, right? They're they're coming to work and they're showing up because they need to be at work. 00:23:01:05 - 00:23:23:13 Prudence But there's a good chance that work is either a distraction for them, and you need to make the environment one where they can be productive, or they need to be at work to be out of the the other environment that they're in and they're distracted at work. So what are some of the ways that employers can promote overall well-being and not in a prescriptive way, right. 00:23:23:13 - 00:24:03:16 Prudence Employees who hear employee assistance programs sometimes back away. Normalizing the conversations around therapy and getting help is awesome. And it's important. It's also important to normalize conversations around diet, exercise, and sleep. So presenteeism is a real issue in the workplace today. And leaders who are rewarding those who show up can be doing a disservice to the others who are doing really awesome work, maybe remotely, or they're doing awesome work within the regular work hours and not necessarily showing up to be seen, by others. 00:24:03:16 - 00:24:28:06 Prudence So for me, what I've seen as far as organizations being more successful today is focusing on the whole individual and recognizing that the person who needs to leave early to go to their child's soccer game isn't performing any less than the other individual who's there from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., or the individual who is taking care of their aging parent at home. 00:24:28:06 - 00:24:48:05 Prudence Right? Doesn't mean that they're not present and that they're not able to do good work. But leaders knowing their employees more is is huge, but also to recognizing ways in which the organization can show up and role model behaviors that help everyone in the organization be whole. 00:24:48:07 - 00:25:08:00 Stephanie You know, the first thing that comes into my mind while you're describing all this, it just keeps popping up over and over again, is trust. I think there has to be trust here in order. Even when you talk about, you know, like understanding what motivates the employee. And it's like knowing that motivation is intrinsic and it comes from within. 00:25:08:02 - 00:25:33:23 Stephanie And so what really needs to happen is for employers and organizations and leaders and bosses or what have you, to be able to create that level of trust engagement that the employee is willing to share their motivations and and they have to be heard, you know, that you have to be heard, like what motivates me? And you may be very different things, and they may still be very like, you know, manageable. 00:25:33:23 - 00:25:58:13 Stephanie You know, they may stop. But but to make an assumption that, you know, everybody is, you know, generalized and what motivates them or for us to always assume it's an externalized thing, I think is, is sort of, it, you know, we we don't get a lot out of it. And so building that trust between HR and the employee and then also employees and their bosses, I mean, I think that there's a lot there. 00:25:58:13 - 00:26:23:23 Stephanie And so I'm just curious, like how I mean, how does that happen in an environment that hasn't necessarily been practicing that in their culture, like from your perspective in the way the HR has been able to evolve, what are things that businesses can do to start developing cultures of trust and cultures where employees are centered in that space? 00:26:24:01 - 00:26:43:23 Prudence Yeah. So what I heard you talk about there was psychological safety, right. So who are the leaders that I've had a leader in? I've had some really good leaders throughout my career, and I've had leaders that have not been as great. And I've been a leader where I would say my employees would really describe me as a role model. 00:26:44:03 - 00:27:04:22 Prudence And there were times that I was not being a great role model when I was a leader. Right. So there's certainly an evolution, through that. But the times that I have been the best leader and when I've enjoyed the relationship with a leader is when there was psychological safety. Yeah. Right. When I could go in and say, this has been a terrible week. 00:27:05:04 - 00:27:31:13 Prudence My my sleep was really affected because I'm really worried about my grandparents and their, their ailing health. Right. Or I, had to travel back and I miss, like, being vulnerable and being able to share the reasons why I might not be showing up for my at my regular self, at work, having a leader where I know that I can share that and it's not held against me is really important. 00:27:31:15 - 00:27:57:14 Prudence And creating that space for my employees as well has really been important. And the way to do that is to be a role model, right? To be vulnerable and to share. And not everyone is comfortable sharing in the same ways. But leaders have to recognize that you're on somewhat of a stage as a leader. Others are looking to you and you're nonverbal are sometimes stronger than your verbal. 00:27:57:14 - 00:28:23:22 Prudence So what are you choosing to share and how are you choosing to show up and how you're making it? Okay, for others to do the same. So as a leader, I ensure that I share and then ask the question, right? So to go in and ask the question and expecting others to share is sometimes difficult for others, because when you're a leader in two years in HR and many employees don't know what to do with you, and it's kind of like, are you human? 00:28:23:22 - 00:28:51:06 Prudence Are you not? So the more you can kind of show that you're human and, you know, share information about ways in which, you struggle with your, your sleep, right? Or you make time for exercise or you are worried about your grandparents ailing health and then invite others to share the more they can share, about them and validation is also key. 00:28:51:08 - 00:29:19:19 Prudence having a team where everyone on the team are parents and they understand each other, that doesn't happen as often, but we all come from different walks of life. So you have the one individual who's really, training for a marathon, right. And they it's important that they run in the morning and at the end of the day, and they need a certain amount of calories, and they're really focused on working certain number of hours, having the time on the outskirts to get their nutrition and their exercise. 00:29:19:21 - 00:29:40:17 Prudence You have the others who are the parents, right, needing to make time for the family, and you have the others who are taking care of your ailing parents. You also have individuals who are going through really serious health conditions and they do not want to share, but it's important that they make time for their recovery and for their their treatment. 00:29:40:23 - 00:30:11:18 Prudence And so a leader recognizing that what's important to them, as you had said before, is not necessarily the same for the entire team, but celebrating each individual at whatever level they're willing to share will normalize the conversations, and employees won't feel as if only the exercisers get celebrated, or only the parents, get a break, but that their leader cares about them as an individual and what's important to them. And leaders 00:30:11:18 - 00:30:34:23 Prudence It's important to show up as individuals in one on one, and as the leader in the team meeting, right? Not everyone will show up the same way with their peers present, but a leader who makes space for everyone in the group setting, but also make space in one on one, would help to build that psychological safety across the entire team. 00:30:35:01 - 00:31:09:19 Shaniqua I think the themes of psychological safety, whole self at work, authenticity, trust This is like something that's very important, like today. And I I'm curious, like, what are your thoughts both you and Stephanie about like the, the pivotal changes that HR implemented like following the Civil Rights Act because that to me is like the catalyst for things like this to exist, like the, the vulnerability, the whole self could actually exist in a workplace. 00:31:09:19 - 00:31:16:06 Shaniqua So I'm curious, like, what were some of those, changes that HR implemented for us? 00:31:16:08 - 00:31:49:14 Prudence Yeah. And so then it was about gender equality, race. Right. Recognizing that there were individuals who were being treated differently and not because of how they worked. And we've seen over the years where that has evolved rights in the beginning was very much about gender and race and age, right. Being over 40 and over time we have seen so much more that has been added on to, protected classes in the workplace. 00:31:49:16 - 00:32:18:05 Prudence Initially, I do believe it was present on paper, but I also believe that many leaders HR in and out of HR were not equipped or ready to ensure that they were proactive about ways in which they could create a work workforce in a work space that celebrated everyone and that everyone felt protected and safe over time. Unfortunately, due to lawsuits, right? 00:32:18:05 - 00:32:40:02 Prudence We have seen so many lawsuits that have come over the years, some that we've seen publicly and some that have been been more private, that are specific to the Civil Rights Act and how organizations are not adhering to the Civil Rights Act. But I think now we're seeing organizations be more proactive, and they are starting at the initial stage. 00:32:40:02 - 00:33:06:09 Prudence As far as attracting talent, how much are they being transparent about the type of talent that they they want within the organization and, and whether or not they have different processes in place? It might be an affinity group to help employees recognize ways in which they can feel connected. Once they are a part of the organization. I think it's still an evolution. 00:33:06:11 - 00:33:29:06 Prudence some days I feel as if we make two steps forward and one back. We've come a long way. We have a very long way to go. My prayer is that my children will exist in a workplace that is further along for them, that it is than it is for me. But we continue to see ways in which women are treated different in the workplace. 00:33:29:06 - 00:34:01:09 Prudence Right. individuals who are over a certain age are also, treated different in the in the workplace, different races are treated, differently. And it's because organizations are not educating employees and leaders. And now there's a lot of leadership training out there. A lot of that is self-directed. Right now, there's not enough all staff training about educating everyone about how to treat each other. 00:34:01:11 - 00:34:20:22 Prudence And these are the same individuals who move into leadership roles later on with the same, bad habits. So while I see that we have come a long way on paper, the reality is not is that some organizations are further along than others, and we still have a long way to go. 00:34:21:00 - 00:34:23:19 Shaniqua So if you had a question about like DEI 00:34:23:21 - 00:34:34:09 Stephanie Well, I mean, I do, especially in the context of I mean, we live in a state, I don't think I'm misstating this to say that we just illegalized DEI. 00:34:34:11 - 00:34:36:11 Shaniqua You're right, you're right. 00:34:36:13 - 00:34:57:14 Stephanie It I'm I'm not always, like, super politically smart in these ways, but, Texas and Florida, Texas and Florida, but so, you know, it's illegal and literally the result of that, just just watching local news even, the results are entire departments being laid off, groups being unfunded. 00:34:57:16 - 00:35:22:08 Stephanie work that's been done being undone. And so I just wondered what your thoughts were on that, you know, and, and when especially and I'll say this too, if you look at studies from anything from Harvard Business Review, peer reviewed studies, Forbes, Dei is listed always as one of sort of the top and from an employee experience and an employee expectation and this idea of inclusivity. 00:35:22:08 - 00:35:40:22 Stephanie And, there's going to be equanimity in an organization equality. All of this is and very important to people. So, it's it does really feel like, not just a step back, but like, like I'm falling off of a cliff back. So I was just curious. Yeah. Your thoughts on that are my thoughts on that are. 00:35:41:00 - 00:35:41:10 Shaniqua Yeah. 00:35:41:11 - 00:35:43:12 Stephanie Anyone you know. 00:35:43:14 - 00:36:09:02 Prudence Within such, depressing message. Right. That, number one, we're having the conversation. And number two, we think that even though we haven't made strides, we should kind of take this off the table. It's training. When you think about training within organizations where you think about budgets being cut, it's like we're not going to train anyone. Let's cut the training budget, right. 00:36:09:02 - 00:36:32:23 Prudence That's the first, budget to go in organizations where I've been a part of, where conversations are about cutting the training budget, I usually make sure that I talk about the return on the investment, and I know there are people out there who are much more influential than I am, much smarter than I am, who are likely having similar conversations about return on the investment. 00:36:32:23 - 00:37:11:02 Prudence Right, and why it's important to have a diverse workforce, and why it's important to focus on diversity and the fact that their voices are being heard in a way where entire states are reversing work that has already been done. It's the word that I think of is depressing, right? It's really depressing to to think that I, I applaud the organizations who are doing the right thing and who are listening to their employees, who are making space for leaders to continue to be educated on what it means to have a diverse workforce. 00:37:11:04 - 00:37:37:02 Prudence I love the fact that many leaders who in past times didn't make space for diversity now have children who have understand diversity, have diverse friends, are partners who are educating their leaders. I've had multiple leaders this year alone who've said, my son educated me, my daughter educated me, my neighbor educated me. And so it's not only about what's happening in the workplace. 00:37:37:02 - 00:38:07:13 Prudence And many times leaders are hearing stronger voices externally than internally. My hope is that those who have influence will continue to drive the message. I believe every head of DEI should be a white man. We do. I believe that those are the individuals who should get educated, who should drive the discussion around diversity and surround themselves with individuals who will educate them. 00:38:07:15 - 00:38:44:17 Prudence I think it's so self-serving to have. And I love all my black sisters who are heads, DEI and black brothers. It's not the same as having a white man driving the conversation. And I recognize this is a public platform and this will get repeated. But I've said it before, as well. And I do believe that if we had a white man who is saying that I am the head of DEI for this massive, you know, name the organization, we would be further along and it would help the message be received in places that it's not being received right now, and. 00:38:44:17 - 00:38:50:07 Shaniqua They possibly still will have more funding. You know, possibly funding wouldn't be cut if it was led by a white man. 00:38:50:07 - 00:39:14:15 Stephanie I, I want to applaud your courage and just stating the truth and the facts about the way the world works and the way things are. And I think that there are examples that we could even look, where when a white man has stepped forward and really, you know, owned and, and own that message and modeled it as well, that it makes a difference. 00:39:14:17 - 00:39:52:10 Stephanie It does make a difference. you know, so I, I yeah, I agree with you. I mean, I think there's an accountability element there. And I think for business owners that are really, you know, because to your point about the younger generation, their tolerance level for this will be much less, you know, and, and they also I think they kind of approach this whole process a little bit more fluidly than, than we probably are comfortable with in a lot of ways, you know, in terms of how they approach the structure of corporate structure and how they are valued within corporate structure and all of these things. 00:39:52:10 - 00:40:18:12 Stephanie I believe they will push a lot of changes, regardless of the resistance around it, because, you know, they are going to be the workforce. and they are looking at things differently. So, you know, we have a lot to learn from them for sure. But it's, you know, I, I think that leaders today who are resisting these types of issues, are really doing it to their detriment. 00:40:18:12 - 00:40:27:14 Stephanie I mean, they are they're they're diminishing opportunity at levels that they they literally don't comprehend. And I guess that's the problem. They literally don't comprehend it. 00:40:27:14 - 00:40:29:02 Prudence So, yeah. 00:40:29:04 - 00:40:31:07 Shaniqua Do you have time for one last question? 00:40:31:13 - 00:40:32:04 Prudence I do 00:40:32:06 - 00:40:47:13 Shaniqua Okay. So, how can HR professionals like further demonstrate their commitment to actually enhancing employee well-being and boosting organizational performance? 00:40:47:15 - 00:41:30:22 Prudence Role modeling. I truly believe that any leader or any individual or department who has visibility, should you use it wisely? Right. How are you showing up? We all have important messages to deliver. We all have important strategic business initiatives to drive. But how are we starting and how are we showing up being vulnerable? if there's a newsletter that, a leader has incorporates something personal in that newsletter, incorporate a piece of advice, ensure that we help employees recognize that it's not about only about the work that they do. 00:41:31:04 - 00:42:08:17 Prudence It's also about them and them being whole. So I truly believe that every leader and every, individual in HR should be a role model. And to the extent that one is comfortable in sharing personally, share. And when not comfortable sharing personally share somebody else's story right? Right. Someone that you admire, that taking care of themselves, share that information as well to show others that it's important to to be whole and that we do better work when you know we sleep better or our minds, at ease, were paid well. 00:42:08:17 - 00:42:11:19 Prudence We're exercising like all of the things. 00:42:11:21 - 00:42:13:01 Stephanie All of the things. 00:42:13:01 - 00:42:38:04 Shaniqua That's so wonderful. I love the, I'm someone who is a role model leader, and I love seeing other people exhibit that because it's it's difficult to tell someone, to get someone to buy into a vision that they haven't seen or heard or experienced. So to lead by example, I think that is that's beautiful. And I can attest that you do that in, in our relationship. 00:42:38:04 - 00:43:08:00 Shaniqua So thank you. I have a question for the the audience. You all out there like think about your last interaction with H.R. What was it like? and what was the impact, like, did the impact or that experience like, change your perception of H.R. And I asked this question because we see a lot of posts externally and just gripe from, I guess there's a lot of distrust from individuals about HR. 00:43:08:00 - 00:43:21:15 Shaniqua So I'm curious, like if we actually sit and think about that experience, what was it like? And after hearing you speak about what H.R. Is in the history of HR like, I wonder if that makes a change in the way that we perceive HR. 00:43:21:17 - 00:43:24:16 Prudence I sure hope so. I sure hope so. Thank you. Shaniqua. 00:43:24:16 - 00:43:31:15 Shaniqua Yes. Well, Prudence, where could our audience find you on social. Do you have any handles to share? 00:43:31:17 - 00:43:52:23 Prudence I do, I do so Prudence is not a common name. So if you type in Prudence Pitter, you will find me on LinkedIn. Also, prudencepitter.com lists my bio and it's also attached to my consulting page where you can see where I'm speaking next. And a little bit about some of the work that I've done external to my my full time role. 00:43:52:23 - 00:43:56:08 Prudence So prudencepitter.com or certainly typing my name in LinkedIn. 00:43:56:09 - 00:44:09:02 Stephanie We will make sure we link to it and our program notes as well. Prudence, it has been wonderful getting to know you more and learning from you and having such a great conversation. Thank you. Shaniqua. 00:44:09:04 - 00:44:17:14 Shaniqua Yes, thank you so much, Prudence. it's a delight to have you here. And this is definitely one of my core memories experience. So thank you. 00:44:17:15 - 00:44:29:08 Prudence Thank you both so much. It's been such a pleasure. And I, I do have my notes. I have my learnings. Now I need to go look back at the timeline and make sure I'm more educated for my next talk. Thank you both so much. 00:44:29:10 - 00:44:31:14 Shaniqua Thank you. Have a good one. We'll see you soon. 00:44:31:16 - 00:44:37:05 Stephanie Thank you, everybody for listening. And, we'll see y’all soon. 00:44:37:05 - 00:44:47:15 Shaniqua Thanks for listening to our show. Show us your support by following us on your favorite podcast platform Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. 00:44:47:17 - 00:45:00:00 Stephanie You can also find us on Castos at fromilluminationtoinnovation.castos.com. If you love our show, share it with your friends and coworkers too. Let's all work together to help businesses 00:45:00:00 - 00:45:05:08 S & S Vibrate Higher!