HR: The Employee Experience -Why Aren’t Leaders Listening? - Ep 3 of 5 HR Series: The Good, the Bad, and the Potential

00:00:05:00 - 00:00:11:12 Shaniqua Hi everybody. Welcome back to From Illumination To Innovation podcast. 00:00:11:12 - 00:00:12:19 Stephanie Yeah. 00:00:12:21 - 00:00:39:22 Shaniqua And you might be wondering why are you dressed this way. Well, our episode today, we're taking, a thematic approach to Employee Experience. And, you know, we've had our HR series, we’re in the third episode of our HR series, episode one, was HR and The History of HR. Episode two Is HR Your Friend? - and now the Employee Experience. 00:00:40:02 - 00:00:45:01 Shaniqua So I'm your co-host, Shaniqua Brown. And here is the fabulous Stephanie Crain. 00:00:45:05 - 00:01:03:20 Stephanie Hey, everybody. And in case you haven't guessed, my, theme for the day, my my corporate culture theme for the day is cool hats. So since I'm the Corporate Mystic, I decided that I would start with my awesome purple Witch hat, And, 00:01:03:22 - 00:01:05:18 Shaniqua I think they're going to have multiple hats here. I don't know. 00:01:05:18 - 00:01:10:19 Stephanie If anybody can guess. Shaniqua’s theme. Do y'all know what it is? 00:01:10:19 - 00:01:24:18 Shaniqua my look today is sales rep who won the all inclusive trip. I’m clearly in my Hawaiian shirt and ready for vacation. Are you ready? 00:01:24:20 - 00:01:27:23 Stephanie Yeah. The only thing she needs is her margarita. 00:01:28:01 - 00:01:31:22 Shaniqua I have a little fizzy drink, so I think that'll work. 00:01:31:23 - 00:01:39:06 Stephanie So why are we here? Talking about employee experience in the middle of an HR series? 00:01:39:08 - 00:02:08:02 Shaniqua Well, I think that's actually. It's the perfect spot for it, right? because employees are at the center of the business, you know? So, here, we're looking to highlight the importance of employee experience, how it ultimately, mirrors the customer experience and just illuminating how important employee experience. If you are a business leader who want to be successful. 00:02:08:04 - 00:02:46:03 Stephanie And so I want to bring just, you know, I'm going to read off my paper because it's what I do best. I recently actually got certified and customer experience specifically. Right. So I have a CXPA certification and I did that because it's I don't actually work specifically and is in that space, but I work with a lot of business owners, and I think understanding the value of nurturing the customer experience is critical when you're developing your culture and developing your business ethos and really trying to understand how you want to express your own values. 00:02:46:05 - 00:03:11:10 Stephanie But in the middle of, you know, that culture experience and that customer experience lives a very, very important entity, and that's the employee. And so I took this from a website, it's Clear Action website, and it's run by Lynn Hunsaker. And she is I used her program to help train me for my CCXP, but it just straight from her site. 00:03:11:11 - 00:03:18:21 Stephanie What is employee experience? And employee experience is what an employee experiences. 00:03:18:23 - 00:03:20:23 Shaniqua Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding. 00:03:21:01 - 00:03:46:22 Stephanie It's, it's their perceptions about how well their employer supports their intended outcomes. And the employee experience is measured by employee's realities versus their expectations. And I think it's really important that we take note of that is, an employee's reality is their experience. Right? Right. 00:03:47:01 - 00:04:13:10 Shaniqua And I think it's really important to understand like we understand the customer cycle or the buyer cycle, right? The full life cycle. The employee experience starts from the prospective employee right where you would... How do you wanna advertise your your roles? How do you, showcase your employer branding? How do you attract talent and bring them through the process? 00:04:13:16 - 00:04:36:09 Shaniqua And then it goes all the way through to when the said employee leaves. And to your point, touching on every facet of the employee, like what they touch, what they contribute like. So I think that's super important to understand that just like we have that customer experience life cycle, we also have that employee experience life cycle. And they're mirrored. 00:04:36:14 - 00:05:02:23 Stephanie Yeah they are it's very, very it the the only other point I took from her site that I really wanted to bring into this conversation is the relationship that direct impact on the customer experience. And she says “there's a symbiotic relationship between good customer experience and good employee experience.” And really, when we think about what the customer is doing, the customer is the one that is paying for our salaries. 00:05:03:01 - 00:05:25:09 Stephanie They are the ones that are paying for our budgets. They are running our business. And so recognizing, that from an employee perspective, that relationship is, is very it's a very intimate relationship. If if we aren't taking care of our employees, they're not going to be able to take care of our customers the way that we need them to. 00:05:25:11 - 00:05:48:00 Stephanie And by virtue, the customer is not going to take care of the business. So it really is a very like clear cycle in terms of how successful that business can really be. And the ROI and the value, the long term value that the business can build into each one of those relationships with the employee and then out to their customer. 00:05:48:02 - 00:05:58:14 Shaniqua That... Like what you're saying, ring so true to a recent experience I had as a customer, I won't name the entity because I think that, well, you know, we don't have to. 00:05:58:14 - 00:06:00:12 Stephanie We can, we can, we can use generalization. 00:06:00:12 - 00:06:26:15 Shaniqua So I go into this establishment and I have this experience with, several of the employees where, one, they're not helping. I can see that they're bombarded with other work. So I'm empathetic to that because I've had that experience as well. I've worked in retail, so I know what that could be like. And, but by the time like 30 minutes later, by the time they were able to help me, they were just so frustrated. 00:06:26:15 - 00:06:47:18 Shaniqua And they had, I would ask a question and they like, didn't know. And, you know, I understand that they don't know. But then I could look right. There's like, like a policy, paper, like right next to them. So I'm reading it. So I'm like getting information from, from it without their help. And I love that experience. 00:06:47:18 - 00:07:07:02 Shaniqua One I immediately researched like what was like their, their salary because I was just curious. And they looked like not only were they experiencing something at work, but like maybe something else was going on in their personal lives. And when I did research on their salary, I was like, yeah, no wonder they're it's expensive for us. Like it's the inflation is high, right? 00:07:07:02 - 00:07:25:17 Shaniqua Inflation is high. And with their salary they can't take care of themselves if they can't take care of themselves, how are they going to show up to take care of the your customer? And then how likely is it I, the customer will want to come back? So if I don't go back then their salaries aren't being paid. You go out of business. 00:07:25:17 - 00:07:46:20 Shaniqua And it's not just I think we focus on like businesses going out, like not existing anymore versus the impact it has on the community. So that's what you were saying rings so true and is very important. And the reason why companies should get on the bandwagon of employee engagement, knowing employee experience. 00:07:46:22 - 00:08:15:10 Stephanie Well, it's interesting because, you know, if everything's about the bottom line, which, you know, according to, you know, our corporate structure, it is. Yeah. Right. Okay. Then it costs a lot of money to obtain a client, a customer. Right. Once you have a customer maintaining that relationship and developing that relationship over time, it can actually return value to you. 00:08:15:10 - 00:08:50:13 Stephanie And, you know, again, you know, in in CX they refer to that as annuities, customer annuities. over time that customer is sharing your story with their friends. They're making purchases without you having to market to them. They're developing loyalty in a relationship. Right. And so that is really still true with your employees. It costs a lot of money to bring an employee on board and, and to, to train them and to nurture them and to get them into a space, being able to support that customer and whether that employee. 00:08:50:13 - 00:09:19:11 Stephanie I think this is really important, too, and I think it's something that gets overlooked a lot in this space, is whether you are an employee that is like directly, you know, you're maybe in sales or customer service and you're constantly in the face of the customer and directly interacting with them, or whether you are working in the back office or you're doing something that is very far removed, it is critical that everyone in an organization understands the impact that of the work they do on that customer relationship. 00:09:19:11 - 00:09:46:20 Stephanie Yes, how it improves that customer's experience. And so I don't think the leaders think about that enough. And it really goes a lot to what I think starts to create disengagement for employees to feel dis-acknowledged or not recognized, and to just simply not even know what their purpose is, you know, like what their role function is beyond the actual tactics of the job, you know, which we know people need to know to really - 00:09:46:20 - 00:09:54:03 Stephanie For people to really thrive, they need more than that. They need more than just like here, do this and and and don't ask questions. 00:09:54:05 - 00:10:22:15 Shaniqua So when in my past as a recruiter, I would use I would say that it's important that I understand what it is that you do. Working with the hiring manager. My first conversation with them, the first meeting is really but focus on understanding the like how your like your team contributes, to - contributes in your department and then most importantly the overall organization. 00:10:22:17 - 00:10:49:14 Shaniqua Because when I'm speaking with prospective employees it’s imperative that I can convey that to them before they even get into the door. Because like we establish, employee experience starts at the prospect space. So if coming into the organization, they're unsure about what exactly that they do, how they contribute to the the overall success and health of the company, then you are playing catch up from the beginning. 00:10:49:19 - 00:11:16:16 Shaniqua So with employee experience, I think it's important to highlight and why for me, why I think it goes well into our HR series, is talking about how we approach talent acquisition at then flips it from, well, they should want to work here. I mean, we're X, Y and Z company. No, you should want to show them why they would want to work here, just like you with the customer. 00:11:16:16 - 00:11:41:22 Shaniqua You're selling the customer from prospect all the way through acquisition. Right? So you're selling these prospective employees on why they should spend their time, energy and talents with your organization. So that is super important. That's important to me. Like what I want to get across in this conversation. It's about the the employee starts before they're even an employee. 00:11:42:00 - 00:12:02:15 Stephanie I would very much agree. And I would even think sometimes in situations speaking, employees might aspirationally look at an organization before the organization even recognizes that they're prospecting them at all. Right? And you know that that setting of expectations versus meeting the reality. 00:12:03:09 - 00:12:31:23 Stephanie Right. I think that sometimes that is where there's big gaps where, you know, the company is looking, the recruiting process as a marketing exercise and not really taking it to the depth of are we expressing our core values. Are we expressing our values in a way that's transparent and truly authentic? And do the people who are, you know, looking at us and wanting to come into our environment, do they feel like they can align to that? 00:12:32:01 - 00:13:03:02 Stephanie You know, does that work for them, and does that work for us? Because I the more the organizations can bring clarity and then, accountability to that employee experience, right? The more truth there is in it. you know, I mean, I believe that it, again, allows for more innovation and allows, you know, you create just a stronger culture as a whole, and allows you to expand, you know, versus just feeling crappy and diminished. 00:13:03:02 - 00:13:36:10 Shaniqua Right. Well, it it sounds like then when you have, clarity in the core values, what you what not only what you do, you serve, but how you do it and why you do it. Not just having that in like HR specifically, but then expanding that to every department in the organization. Going back to what you said, everyone understanding what we do, how we do it, why we do it, then that will just create exceptional customer experience, right? 00:13:36:10 - 00:14:09:16 Shaniqua Absolutely - You will then see lots of success. Because if I'm taking care of if I understand the mission, if I understand, who I need to work with to accomplish that mission, I have clear parameters of like what type of autonomy I have. I am excited to, you know, see this client issue through or excited to go get new business or if I'm, you know, in finance, I understand why, you know, this marketing director is coming in asking for more budget. 00:14:09:16 - 00:14:21:15 Shaniqua I can empathize and we can have an actual conversation about, hey, here's how we can make this work, versus yelling at each other or creating, like division within the organization. 00:14:21:15 - 00:14:50:11 Stephanie Absolutely. No, I think so. It's so it's interesting when we talk about like, we we just actually had an an episode out a few weeks ago on culture crafting. Right. And when we think about employees, I think that's where we sometimes think of our culture, crafting from the perspective of being really contrived, like like Hat Day or, you know, and and so I was, I, you know, I was looking I was doing some reading, obviously doing some reading on this. 00:14:50:11 - 00:15:04:13 Stephanie I found this article through Built In and it was sort of the do's and don'ts of like creating a positive culture. And there were a lot of like obvious things on there that I think we would recognize, like, you know, do have integrity, do create a culture of trust, you know, those things like that. 00:15:04:15 - 00:15:05:15 Shaniqua But there were there were. 00:15:05:15 - 00:15:34:14 Stephanie Things that stood out that I just, I thought were worth exploring from the context of, you know, one of their things was, you know, be light hearted, and, you know, and I, I agree, I think that, you know, being able to, like, have a culture where people can be light hearted and, you know, perhaps Crazy Hat Day isn't so contrived in that context of just allowing people to be playful and expressive. 00:15:34:15 - 00:15:47:22 Stephanie but also, you know, just what does a lighthearted culture allow for employees? and, and what does it free up for them? You know, when, when you bring that sort of energy into your environment, have. 00:15:47:22 - 00:15:52:04 Shaniqua You ever had, like, have you ever experienced a lighthearted culture? 00:15:52:06 - 00:15:56:16 Stephanie I have, I feel, I, I feel like I have nurtured a lighthearted culture. 00:15:59:13 - 00:16:05:02 Shaniqua Yeah. I my lighthearted. Well. 00:16:06:22 - 00:16:09:21 Shaniqua My teams have been lighthearted with. 00:16:09:21 - 00:16:11:16 Stephanie Micro cultures is what I call them. 00:16:11:16 - 00:16:12:10 Shaniqua Micro culture. 00:16:12:10 - 00:16:18:15 Stephanie Yes. Yeah. Sometimes the environment is you sort of have to create that buffer, for, for your team. 00:16:18:18 - 00:16:44:16 Shaniqua And I think that like being lighthearted, like you're saying within days, like, and even it for me is like, not necessarily taking yourself too seriously where you can, like, laugh at things and perhaps our make you, blunders at work easier to, like, work through. I am so digging these silent changes. 00:16:45:22 - 00:16:55:13 Shaniqua If you're listening to the podcast, you have to go over to our YouTube channel so you can experience the changing hats. They're great hats, by the way. Let us know which was your favorite. 00:16:55:13 - 00:17:00:17 Stephanie I just I'm a good corporate citizen and I took Hat Day seriously. Okay. 00:17:00:19 - 00:17:03:02 Thank you. 00:17:03:04 - 00:17:22:01 Shaniqua but like, I think, like, being able to laugh and have fun, right? I feel like one of the reasons why our podcast, like recording our podcast, is something that I look forward to, is because it is lighthearted. We can laugh when we have a blunder. We can say, hey, we're going to cut that out because you can not get that on with yes, you, you know, we can just have a good time. 00:17:22:01 - 00:17:27:06 Shaniqua So, I love that that was like one of, the like things to do. 00:17:27:07 - 00:17:30:02 Stephanie It really jumped out at me. Is is awesome. 00:17:30:02 - 00:17:32:10 Shaniqua Are there anymore? Well, one. 00:17:32:10 - 00:17:56:05 Stephanie That I felt like I, I don't know if it's like I agree with it. And then I also think it's controversial. And so it was social outings and I have a lot of thoughts. I thought a lot of ways about social outings. And one my very first thought was, you know, how does that work? In really virtually distributed environments, you know, so okay, we have social outings when we all work together. 00:17:56:05 - 00:18:15:11 Stephanie That's great. and then I thought about like work life balance. And I know some people who just like, want to get off work and just go, you know, go home. And so I thought, are these social outings that are happening during work hours or outside of work hours? Because that sort of makes a difference, because if it's a social outing for the employee experience. 00:18:15:13 - 00:18:21:05 Stephanie So for example, like if the employees are going to go on a field trip. 00:18:21:07 - 00:18:23:04 Shaniqua I was just thinking that. 00:18:23:06 - 00:18:25:04 Stephanie Yes. And I get to go. 00:18:25:04 - 00:18:26:11 Shaniqua And during working hours. 00:18:26:11 - 00:18:52:08 Stephanie Yeah, during working hours, like taking that time and investing because I think what happens and what I think often when, you know, whether we're creating, you know, Hat Day or these themed events or we're trying to think like vacation day, we're trying we're trying to cultivate this, you know, organic expression and let people be themselves. But in reality, people don't really buy into that a whole bunch. 00:18:52:08 - 00:19:11:00 Stephanie They're still going to be guarded. They may may wear the shirt. They may have, you know, not everybody's going to be like me. And like win every single Halloween contest that they enter, okay. But you know, it's everybody's going to approach that sort of with their own sensibility. But when we put people in situations where they're just having an experience together. 00:19:11:02 - 00:19:36:02 Stephanie But. Right. And the experience itself is sort of, you know, neutralized in the sense of everybody is sharing it. It's, you know, not sort of directed towards, you know, one particular talent or skill or group. It's just more generalized in that sense that I think, it gives people a different way to interact and a different way to learn about each other and themselves that, that they don't really get. 00:19:36:02 - 00:20:15:13 Stephanie In some of these more ... contrived. Or again, if it's happy hour, I mean, trust me, I've been to a lot of great happy hours and I've been really happy of the happy hours. You know, I like, but I also know that sometimes happy hours can have their own sort of, you know, shadow to, you know, where there maybe, you know, not everybody is drinking as much as they used to, there's a, you know, big shift towards, you know, you know, dry like mocktails and dry behavior and, and I think also happy hours can sometimes to lean towards, you know, work, gossip or, you know, things that just and then and of course 00:20:15:13 - 00:20:30:08 Stephanie people are relieving stress and tension and things like that. But I just you know, when I saw that like, do social outings, it really stood out to me because I just had more questions than answers with that. And I thought, is that something that, like businesses should be investing in for their employees? 00:20:30:10 - 00:20:32:08 Shaniqua Or if I think it's like. 00:20:33:00 - 00:20:53:13 Shaniqua I don't have an answer to that particular, but I the social outing, to me, my immediate response is, well, I don't like forced fun. So immediately, I just want to go home like I'm one of those people, especially if, like, the social outing is around happy hour. if it's a smaller group of, like, my work friends, my work. 00:20:53:13 - 00:20:59:07 Shaniqua But I will go to happy hour with those individuals. But if it's a work happy hour where I don't like that. 00:20:59:07 - 00:21:24:22 Stephanie Yeah, I have an anecdotal story with the organization I used to work for, and it actually brought me great joy. It was like one of my favorite things about this particular team. the organization was big and had a lot of divisions. And so, holiday celebrations at some point, they used to all celebrate together, and then they broke it up divisionally. And the one division they, they would do, an outing. 00:21:24:23 - 00:21:47:12 Stephanie Right. They did the Main Event. All right. you know, everybody, I played video games and golf and all that. They divided the teams. They divide every on the team into bowling teams. And they had this like it went on for years and probably decades now. it's one single bowling pin that has been signed by the winners, and it gets to stay in the winner's office, you know, and fun. 00:21:47:13 - 00:22:06:01 Stephanie And it is fun. It's like and teams design their T shirts like everybody gets they really get into it. They play. They plan it for like weeks and months, you know like super into like their team names and like the way they show up and all of that. And it's really like I think that's like a, a really great example of it. 00:22:06:01 - 00:22:27:17 Stephanie It's it's done on company time. Company pays for it, you know. And, and but it's such an experience that it's like the dynamic shift that happens in that experience. People are collaborating together that don't normally work together. They're being creative together. They're just they're just doing so many things where they're getting to learn more about themselves and each other, you know? 00:22:27:17 - 00:22:34:05 Stephanie And I think that's really a powerful like thing, you know, like I really I enjoyed it there was something that like really stayed with me. 00:22:34:06 - 00:22:57:01 Shaniqua Yeah. And it sounds like it's a way that you like you were saying you get to meet new people, collaborate new people, and then like, that's creating psychological safety at work. And I think that's a creative way is to like, build relationships. so I like that if, if that were the idea behind and not necessarily that specifically, but like field trips like, yeah. 00:22:57:01 - 00:22:57:07 Stephanie Things. 00:22:57:07 - 00:23:01:18 Shaniqua Like that, that I would, I would be a fan of that social like the social outing. 00:23:01:21 - 00:23:03:07 Stephanie You want to hear what it said not to do. 00:23:03:09 - 00:23:04:03 Shaniqua Yes. 00:23:04:05 - 00:23:16:04 Stephanie But we've already touched on this, but I think we can like it said it in all caps and I put it that way. Don't expect H.R. to do all of the culture building, y'all. Okay. 00:23:16:06 - 00:23:19:19 Shaniqua So there's more people in the organization that could drive culture. 00:23:19:19 - 00:23:50:11 Stephanie I put a note that says culture means y'all okay. Like it's, you know, realistically, like I, you know, I believe and I've said it many how leadership drives culture. Right. Period. And I think H.R. people are great partners in culture development. Absolutely. Without question. But I believe and we're talking about the employee experience here. Every employee in an organization should be fully empowered to participate, create in and express the culture of the organization. 00:23:50:13 - 00:24:14:16 Shaniqua Oh, yeah. And I, I think that should be part of employee like employer branding like that expectation. Well, first you need to like, articulate what your, your culture is. it how is it how it's exhibited in day to day at work. So I 100% agree with you. It's not one person's job, one department's job. It's everyone's job. 00:24:14:16 - 00:24:24:01 Shaniqua To your point and leadership sets it. And we all embody it. And that to me creates more autonomy. Like already I feel empowered and I don't work at this fictitious place. 00:24:24:01 - 00:24:28:07 Stephanie It create. I think it creates the autonomy and it also creates the connection. Connection. 00:24:28:07 - 00:24:28:18 Shaniqua Yes. 00:24:28:18 - 00:24:34:08 Stephanie And both it's like, you know, a nice balance of symbiotic energy. 00:24:34:08 - 00:24:43:22 Shaniqua Right? I'm going to say really quickly that I think the top hat is my favorite with your, metal jewelry. You're giving steampunk right now. Thank you. So I'm really. 00:24:43:22 - 00:24:49:04 Stephanie Excited. I put it on is my, like, big boss hat. 00:24:49:06 - 00:24:55:16 Shaniqua So that is why, like, one thing is, are there any others that, like I said, not to do? I'm curious about. 00:24:55:22 - 00:25:22:16 Stephanie It. so these two were, I thought, interesting and interesting to talk about together and juxtaposed against each other. So it was don't tolerate disengaged employees to long and don't tolerate poor managers and all my very first thought was, well, what if your poor management is disengaging your staff? Is this an egg or chicken situation here? And you know, I'm just out. 00:25:22:17 - 00:25:28:09 Stephanie So that was one thought I had. And then I have other thoughts on it too. But, I'm curious how you respond. 00:25:28:11 - 00:25:41:09 Shaniqua Oh, okay. Well, this is my, little investigator brain. So in the article, did they list the poor managers first or the, disengaged employees first on the list? 00:25:41:09 - 00:25:42:17 Stephanie The disengaged employees? 00:25:42:17 - 00:26:06:20 Shaniqua So now I'm curious about, like, the, perspective of the authors. Like what the author's perspective is on, like, employees and management. Because to your point, I'm thinking, like, I will ask, I will have so many questions about why this employee is disengaged versus the poor manager. Like like you said, is it are the employees disengaged because there is a poor manager? 00:26:06:20 - 00:26:11:04 Shaniqua Like why wouldn't that be on the list, higher and then disengaged employees below it? 00:26:11:04 - 00:26:38:00 Stephanie Well, and I believe one of our I think, I think it may have been Prudence earlier in the series and she talked a little bit about poor management and the kind of poor managers hiring for it and creating that cycle within an organization. So there's sort of an accounting middle accountability question there as well, in terms of are we just blaming bad managers without really giving them the resources and tools they need to be good ones? 00:26:38:02 - 00:26:56:14 Stephanie You know, because I think it's really easy to say like, oh, I've got a crappy boss or, you know, this person is not really performing or doing the job they need to be doing, but are, you know, have we told them really what that looks like, you know, and how it how they can be most effective in helping and supporting the employee? 00:26:56:16 - 00:27:04:20 Shaniqua Let me ask you this because what you but you just said like sparked this question. 00:27:04:22 - 00:27:29:23 Shaniqua Do you think that like as a Corporate Mystic, would you prefer that your, hypothetical client focuses on the do’s first and then after they have the dos, like they're up and running with the dos that were spelled out here, then start to look at, like implementing some of the don'ts. Or would you share like to implement the don'ts and then like work into the dos? 00:27:29:23 - 00:27:33:03 Stephanie Yeah, I would stop the bleeding. I would say. 00:27:33:03 - 00:27:33:14 Shaniqua So what does that. 00:27:33:14 - 00:27:52:11 Stephanie Mean that I would I would work on the, if you, if you've got things that you're tolerating in your environment, in your culture, or if you're tolerating, for example, poor management, if you're tolerating a demotivated workforce and, you know, there's I don't I'm not going to be able to find the study. So you just have to believe me. 00:27:52:15 - 00:28:06:02 Stephanie Okay? I think there's, there was a study that was, you know, looking at productivity in the workforce. And it basically said that, you know, at any given time, 30% of your workforce is doing all the work. 00:28:06:04 - 00:28:07:11 Shaniqua Yeah. But. 00:28:07:13 - 00:28:37:13 Stephanie You know, so that means 70% of your workforce is disengaged or not, you know, working at least to the level that from a business planning, business operation perspective, you're anticipating or you need. And it means that that 30% is getting burnt out and they're going to go away. And the other ones that know everything that's going on. So that's a super huge problem to have in, you know, in a in your work culture, if that's if that is indeed what's happening. 00:28:37:13 - 00:29:08:04 Stephanie So I think that when we talk about this, the other thing too, that I think is sort of ironic when we're talking about poor managers. I've never known a manager that wasn't an employee. So what is their boss doing for them? Because unless you're the owner of a company and you're willing to ascertain your own, you know, self-awareness and your own capacity to be effective or to cause problems, you're an employee, you're reporting to somebody else, and somebody else has some accountability to your growth. 00:29:08:06 - 00:29:42:16 Stephanie Right. So I you know, I think that isolating these things and saying like oh well that's just like there are times, there are times when people become disenfranchized disenchanted for whatever reason, it may not have anything to do with the organization. That's a very real thing. People have things going on in their own world. My perspective isn't to sort of judge that from the perspective of if I can help you or if I can engage with you, I'm certainly going to try, but I'm also I know that I can't functionally change somebody in terms of where they want to be in their own space. 00:29:42:18 - 00:29:59:10 Stephanie And so there's a balance there for managers of having to like look at a disengaged employee and determine, is there a way to reengage that employee or is this disengaged employee creating challenges within the team itself? Right. And that's just that's part of leadership and part of it being challenging. 00:29:59:10 - 00:30:26:20 Shaniqua Yeah. And and our previous guests, David and Justin from Blue Case Solutions, they mentioned that it's like actually having a and what I appreciate is that they talked about having they in their consulting. They do bring it all out to the forefront. Right. In these spaces where yeah, you're probably going to they I think he said that in Be a Better Team by Friday. 00:30:26:20 - 00:30:52:12 Shaniqua Like sitting down with the the two the engineering and I think it's like the operations like leaders and really having them like hash it out without yelling at one another. And I think that could also be applied here. And like if you are coming across like folks that are disengaged, like, let's talk about it. because I think if you begin to wonder about it, you can put your own, what you believe out. 00:30:52:12 - 00:30:53:03 Stephanie There, your own. 00:30:53:03 - 00:31:24:04 Shaniqua Bias. Yeah. Your own bias. Absolutely. It's like, I think a lot of it in the reality of living in capitalism, I think a lot of things can be saved, you know, because people are then faced with the reality of, oh, yeah, I got to pay some bills. So I think that like that employee that may have like, something going on at home, I think if they know how they're showing up at work and then maybe can have a real conversation about whether or not like, this project is working, or can we put you maybe use FMLA, maybe you could work on another project, another team, like just having like, this human conversation. 00:31:24:04 - 00:31:31:01 Shaniqua So, David, Justin and I'm curious what you think about employee engagement. Hit us up in the comments. Man 00:31:31:03 - 00:31:52:00 Stephanie Yeah. It's when I think back on teams I've managed and and yeah, I've, I've managed a lot of individuals then a lot of a lot of individual hiring and things of that nature. And I can only think of one employee in my entire career that I just couldn't. I just couldn't work it out with that person. And that's just. 00:31:52:00 - 00:31:52:13 Shaniqua One, right? 00:31:52:13 - 00:32:14:10 Stephanie Just one, just one literally, you know, like I, I mean, to the point of, you know, many conversations where people are expressing stress or expressing exhaustion. They're expressing, you know, whatever burnout, you know, whatever they're expressing is coming out. And and as a manager, it's my job to be aware of that. And but yeah, I mean, there 00:32:14:10 - 00:32:16:13 Stephanie we work with adult humans, right? 00:32:16:13 - 00:32:57:12 Stephanie I'm not there to babysit them. I'm I'm really there to support them. And creating that trust relationship in a way that your employee is able to say, hey, I'm going through a divorce, you know, and not only do I not want anybody to know about it, but it may take a few, you know, a few periods of time away from my work schedule, you know, and I, I've just never understood this kind of idea of, like, micromanaging employees to the point that we're somehow expecting them to completely, like, separate themselves from all aspects of their lives while they're, like, in this little space, you know, and and at the same time, we want them 00:32:57:12 - 00:33:06:01 Stephanie to answer an email after 9:00 at night. And it's just that doesn't work, you know, and you can't have it both ways. 00:33:06:03 - 00:33:16:22 Shaniqua Well, so how do you how in your mind, how can we like better center employees needs inside the business? I have my thoughts that I'm curious about your thoughts. 00:33:16:22 - 00:33:21:03 Stephanie And, yeah, I have crazy thoughts. 00:33:21:09 - 00:33:24:02 Yeah. 00:33:24:04 - 00:33:28:03 Stephanie Like, nobody ever likes my ideas. 00:33:28:05 - 00:33:28:19 Shaniqua But. 00:33:28:21 - 00:33:58:23 Stephanie I mean, I for one, I don't think that sort of our hierarchical competitive traditional corporate structure is very value add for us anymore. I think it might have been at one time, I don't know, I don't even want to really like, posit on that. But I think in this day and age, sort of that climb over each other to get to the top of the pyramid type thing, it just diminishes your culture, you know? 00:33:58:23 - 00:34:25:04 Stephanie And so I was I was reading an article where it talked about, you know, a CEO literally flipping the pyramid, and like taking sort of the directive at that level, you know, like what the what is the need at this level. Right. You know, because the it's, it should in some sense, you know, the need at this level should really be greater. 00:34:25:06 - 00:34:43:11 Stephanie It's bigger. I mean, it's just like it's like if we're just like and and if you're serving this need here, right all the way down, your need is going to get mad. If you're the leader at the bottom of that, everything is, you know, ideally you're creating expansion by doing that. 00:34:43:11 - 00:34:51:15 Shaniqua Oh my gosh, should this company get reemed by Squawk Box? Because that sounds like it does not fit in with Jim Cramer's ideologies. 00:34:51:15 - 00:35:17:00 Stephanie It's probably not, and it probably does not fit in with that, you know. But but I mean, I think some of it is looking at things radically different, and recognizing that, like, impermanence is a part of innovation and evolution, like nothing is ever meant to be exactly the same way it was forever, always, you know, and except for, you know, maybe the mountains and the earth, and I'm okay with that. 00:35:17:00 - 00:35:42:21 Stephanie But but, you know, when it comes to businesses, we get so locked into the way things have been done. And I think there's also all this like fear of losing control, but it's sort of a joke because you don't have the control anyway. Like, you know, whether you're on the employee side or on the organizational side. It's like having that fear of losing control as opposed to stepping into a space of empowerment. 00:35:42:23 - 00:35:53:21 Stephanie And I think that's where the biggest opportunities are to kind of create that culture within business, you know, whatever that looks like. What are your what are your thoughts? 00:35:53:23 - 00:36:32:13 Shaniqua So remember that Fort Hays State University, research paper. I share it with you in episode one of our HR series. so I think getting back to the as the actual, the essence of the high performance era, that focuses on employee empowerment, like you were saying, and actual delegation, and what was so substantial about this period was that business owners finally began to see employees beyond productivity. 00:36:32:14 - 00:37:05:21 Shaniqua And that era, the high performance era that we're in today for HR started in 1970, and we're in 2024, and we're still having conversations about productivity and profit. And I think that I'm a little optimistic that we can change this with the just feeling the climate around us, that not only are employees wanting change, it's almost like they're demanding it, and it's putting the business owners feet to the fire of like, we got to figure it out. 00:37:06:00 - 00:37:44:10 Shaniqua So to all the business owners out there, I hope that you're thinking about ways to create a solid employee experience and really look beyond this person that could just do something for you. And in our outside of work, in our social sociocultural aspect of living, right, right. No one wants to be feel used, right? So if you're going to work and you feeling used, are you do you really care about going the extra mile for this customer because you did the math and you know you're only getting a fraction of a percent of this, this money that the customer is bringing into the organization. 00:37:44:10 - 00:38:10:07 Shaniqua And you're possibly thinking, and this was also reference in Fort Hays State University, that, I think in the bureaucratic era that the business owners were like, hey, we'll give you a lot of money if you like, produce produce produce overachieve and we'll give you more money. And they're like, no, they they opt out of it because they knew if they did dabble in that then, then the employer would expect more and more and more. 00:38:10:09 - 00:38:39:04 Shaniqua So I think the high performance era, I think we're seeing that where we're like, oh, incentive pay. Yes, I want like sign up for that because I'm a high achiever. I love what I do. And then you get there and it's more and more and more. So I think to sum it up, I think moving beyond seeing beyond the productivity of this individual and tapping into their creativity, their ingenuity, like what can they their how else can they contribute to the organization? 00:38:39:06 - 00:39:08:22 Stephanie I you know, in my experience talking to employees and middle managers, I speak to a lot of middle management people and a lot of upper level management people that employees want to be recognized, they want to be acknowledged. And, you know, monetary recognition is critical and important. And it doesn't make it easier. I think in 2022, the CEO to employee ratio was 399 to 1 in terms of salary. 00:39:09:00 - 00:39:34:00 Stephanie so and CEOs making 399 times more than their typical employee. And so employees do that math. They do look at it that way, you know, and we're in an era right now where we have things like Quiet Quitting. We have, you know, these trends that are happening where people are trying to find ways to set boundaries, create value within their own space, empower themselves, you know, to be valued. 00:39:34:02 - 00:40:02:21 Stephanie But I also worry a lot of times that because of the, again, going back into fear and why people make a lot of choices, you know, the people get stuck in that space, because ultimately, you know, quiet quitting, I think, is a fantastic short term strategy to redirect your energy into something else. But if you start quiet, quitting and then you settle into sort of that diminished space, you're, you're you're diminishing your spirit, your value. 00:40:02:23 - 00:40:25:03 Stephanie I mean, you know, what your time is worth and you're agreeing, you know, at that point, even at that stage, you're diminishing your time and your value by just being at a lower level than you want to be, you know, and not allowing yourself to expand, not allowing your skills to expand. I talked to people all the time who quiet quit their job like seven years ago, and now they have lost their skills. 00:40:25:03 - 00:40:59:04 Stephanie They're not they're not able to move forward because they have locked themselves into a stuck position. The quiet quitting happened out of frustration and anger, but the fear is what keeps them stagnated and in place. And so I think it's really important for employees when they're thinking about how they empower themselves, you know, to, to look, the strategic choices they're making in their life and when it's worth it to take risk, you know, whether that risk is speaking up, whether that risk is leaving, whether, you know, like, I mean, there's a lot of different ways. 00:40:59:04 - 00:41:06:15 Stephanie But I think just sitting and being quiet and getting more and more diminished over time isn't really going to be a good long term strategy for anybody. 00:41:06:19 - 00:41:12:01 Shaniqua Now, that actually hurts my heart. And thinking about are they quiet quitting other aspects of their lives? 00:41:12:01 - 00:41:18:16 Stephanie I it's something to explore because whenever you're acting on a fear, you're not acting from your higher self. 00:41:18:16 - 00:41:19:04 Shaniqua Yeah. 00:41:19:04 - 00:41:55:01 Stephanie You know, you're not really fulfilling your deepest needs. and so I, you know, I think that when we are thinking about employee experience, there's so much perception right now around. And I know that we are planning a future, series on generations. And I think that's really relevant in the employee experience as well, in terms of what different generations have experienced, what they perceive, and frankly, what the new generations are going to teach us. 00:41:55:03 - 00:42:19:20 Shaniqua yes. so I overall with the this episode, the employee experience, I think, couple of takeaways here is that the employee experience is important and it also mirrors your customer experience. So if you care about your customer experience, you have to care about the employee experience. And sure, taking care of them will ultimately take care of your customer. 00:42:20:02 - 00:42:35:09 Shaniqua And 2, the employee experience starts at the prospective employees stage. So think about your employer branding that you have on your website, your job descriptions. How are they reading? Please, if you have. 00:42:35:11 - 00:42:37:10 Stephanie Real titles, please use real time job. 00:42:37:10 - 00:42:41:10 Shaniqua Descriptions. Please give me a call. Call Shaniqua Oh my gosh, don't. 00:42:41:10 - 00:42:42:05 Stephanie Make up titles. 00:42:42:07 - 00:42:56:03 Shaniqua Please tell right because they will know when they get in the organization. so thinking about like the employee experience is from the, perspective employee through when they exit and everything in between. 00:42:56:05 - 00:43:13:08 Stephanie You know, I and maybe we can close on this, but it is you said it and it's one of these things that irks me. And that is we should be celebrating people when they move on to the next phase of their life. We should not be treating it like it's a shameful event and, you know, walking them out quickly. 00:43:13:08 - 00:43:40:08 Stephanie I think from a cultural perspective, anytime I'm in an environment that truly celebrates their employees, they want them to be successful. With or without them. They're truly celebrating the individual and their own success. And, you know, like there's nothing that makes me prouder, like as a boss, than when I see one of my previous employees out there just excelling in their life. 00:43:41:05 - 00:44:02:00 Stephanie I, I, I don't I don't have to know anything more than just that, just excelling in their life and, and and I'm I feel so great about that and I celebrate that for them. And so I just think that's a lesson that leaders can really take to heart. It's like celebrating your employees means all the way. 00:44:02:02 - 00:44:24:17 Shaniqua All the way, all the way. Stephanie, this is great. I will say to our audience, if you, are starting this episode, the Employee Experience, please check out, the first and second episodes of our H.R. Series. HR Then and Now an Education, as well as HR, Friend or Foe. 00:44:24:22 - 00:44:32:08 Stephanie And don't forget, we will. Our next episode is going to be HR, A Seat at the Table and Mindy. 00:44:32:09 - 00:44:33:13 Shaniqua Yeah super excited. 00:44:33:13 - 00:44:38:12 Stephanie It's going to be fantastic. So stay with us because we have a lot more to come. 00:44:38:14 - 00:44:45:12 Shaniqua And thank you so much. And also vote in the comments. Which hat of Stephanie's you enjoyed. Thank you. See you all soon. 00:44:45:12 - 00:44:47:01 Bye. 00:44:47:01 - 00:44:57:11 Shaniqua Thanks for listening to our show. Show us your support by following us on your favorite podcast platform Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. 00:44:57:13 - 00:45:09:20 Stephanie You can also find us on Castos at From Illumination to Innovation dot Castos dot com.. If you love our show, share it with your friends and coworkers too. Let's all work together to help businesses 00:45:09:20 - 00:45:15:04 S & S Vibrate Higher.