The Fear Factor: Why Change Feels So Dangerous

00:00:00:16 - 00:00:04:19 Shaniqua Stephanie. Hey girlfriend. How are you. 00:00:04:21 - 00:00:12:15 Stephanie Oh my God Shaniqua it's so good to see you. Let's. What's what's changed in your life lately. 00:00:12:17 - 00:00:22:21 Shaniqua Oh Stephanie, everything. My hair, my headband. My mother in law is living with us. The cats are changing their routines. What's changed with you . 00:00:22:21 - 00:00:24:08 Speaker 2 00:00:24:10 - 00:00:27:24 Stephanie Oh my gosh. Okay, well, you brought up hair first. So, you know, my hair's changed, like, four times at least. 00:00:29:21 - 00:00:30:19 Shaniqua Of course. And it’s gotten darker. 00:00:32:15 - 00:00:36:01 Shaniqua Oh, it's like, look, a deep plum I think. 00:00:36:18 - 00:00:44:07 Stephanie Oh, it’s gone through several shades, but right now I'm kind of trying to get back to my roots. 00:00:44:09 - 00:00:45:23 Stephanie But they keep changing on me. 00:00:46:01 - 00:00:48:03 Speaker 2 Okay. 00:00:48:14 - 00:00:55:16 Shaniqua So much has changed. Like, personally, with us and FITI - How are you feeling about the changes with FITI? 00:00:55:22 - 00:01:04:18 Stephanie I am really excited, and I think one. Hello, audience. Welcome back to season two. 00:01:06:11 - 00:01:17:23 Stephanie Of our FITI vodcast, From Illumination to Innovation. And we have we have made some changes. But I - Shaniqua, why don't you tell our audience. What kinds of things we’re changing this season. 00:01:20:11 - 00:01:30:08 Shaniqua After we recorded 24 episodes. So season one, we put in a lot of work. I'm so proud of us. 00:01:30:10 - 00:01:43:19 Stephanie I did that like I saw an article that said that that put us literally in the 1% of podcasts that are able to make it through a full year and publish more than 20 episodes. So... 00:01:43:19 - 00:01:44:08 Shaniqua We did that. 00:01:44:14 - 00:01:46:22 Stephanie We're in the top 1% y’all. 00:01:46:24 - 00:02:02:16 Shaniqua And we did so much work. We've had like how many? I think maybe like 3 or 4 series in season one that we both like, directed, produced. Also, we were the host of. 00:02:03:11 - 00:02:05:00 Stephanie That almost like the everything. 00:02:05:05 - 00:02:07:06 Speaker 2 We except for our. 00:02:07:06 - 00:02:12:03 Stephanie Fantastic guests, which were like brilliant minds all across the board. 00:02:12:05 - 00:02:18:20 Shaniqua Our guests are the gift that keeps on giving. I feel like that will never change. Like the Guests just keep adding value to the conversation. 00:02:18:20 - 00:02:23:09 Stephanie I think that's actually if we have like if we could stop change, I think that's where it stop. Right there. 00:02:23:10 - 00:02:24:11 Speaker 2 There the that. 00:02:24:15 - 00:02:44:04 Shaniqua Was it the constant. And we're the variable. But I think that like well you know with all of our success of last year I don't know about you, but when Winter came I hit a ball and I thought something has to change, not the podcast itself, but I was thinking like, what if we did something a little bit different? 00:02:44:04 - 00:03:34:05 Shaniqua And honestly, I was inspired by you. Your Witchyness. I was thinking of like how? Like how does like the energy flow? And I went down a wormhole of why am I exhausted during Winter? And I start to find that like, that's like the natural flow of energy, you know, the alignment with the seasons. So I, I propose that maybe we like, kick things off when we're feeling energized with, with the Spring Equinox, and we structure our illuminating and innovative podcast in that similar rhythms kind of like challenge the status quo of like how we work and how we create in this like type of sphere of us, like sharing ID ideas with others. 00:03:34:07 - 00:03:53:24 Stephanie But, you know, it's one of my favorite things about why we worked so well together is just being able. Because the minute you described it to me, of course you know me. I'm I'm always immediately like GenX resistant, like what? 00:03:54:01 - 00:03:55:00 Speaker 2 Is that. No. 00:03:55:00 - 00:04:17:10 Stephanie As soon as you, like, lay it all out and I'm like, oh my God, that's brilliant. Oh, yeah. That is so, in sync and aligned with I just us energetically and the world, you know how we function. Because I started, I started thinking about it like from even the audience. It was like, you know, everybody comes back into January with like, you know, already feeling behind, like already like. 00:04:17:10 - 00:04:19:05 Speaker 2 So it's like. 00:04:19:07 - 00:04:24:20 Stephanie And you know, it's I feel like it's it allows everybody to kind of get back into their rhythm. 00:04:27:05 - 00:04:56:18 Stephanie And then we, we. Are like, I think rhythmically just adding ourselves into the mix. Like just helping them vibrate higher. Right? Like bringing it coming in at a time when they're going to be ready for what we have to say. And this season, I think we have a lot to say. I'm really excited to see. Okay, so no, I don't know if anybody's guessed or not because, you know, we've said the word, but do you want to tell everybody. 00:04:56:20 - 00:04:58:07 Speaker 2 All of the seasons. 00:04:58:13 - 00:05:05:24 Shaniqua All this season we are talking about Change, like the elements, the influence of change, the structures of Change. 00:05:07:24 - 00:05:10:19 Stephanie Absolutely. Totally inspired. Totally inspired by ourselves. 00:05:10:21 - 00:05:13:04 Speaker 2 00:05:13:06 - 00:05:40:01 Shaniqua Yes. I feel like we've been, allowing ourselves to really go through and, the, the changes and we've been so open and vulnerable with one another about the changes in our personal lives and our professional lives. And just like us individually as people, you know, like, so I feel like this was only society. Culture. Right? This is the chance we. 00:05:40:04 - 00:06:05:02 Stephanie Can stop the changes in the world, that is for sure. And there's a lot happening. You know, change brings up a lot of things for a lot of people. So, it was you know, Shaniqua, Shaniqua had the idea of really like, let's do a seasonal series focusing and really drilling down on one topic and change. For me, it's like one of my favorite topics. 00:06:05:06 - 00:06:12:24 Stephanie Like it. Most people like really fear it. We'll talk about that. But like my motto and life is “Change brings change.” And I was like, Yes, what a great thing to talk about. 00:06:19:24 - 00:06:22:16 Shaniqua I could see... I could see you, like, lighting up when Change is coming, like, well. 00:06:25:14 - 00:06:37:10 Shaniqua Like, I mean, we talk about, like, you know, change not being just like, siloed event it, like, avalanches. 00:06:37:12 - 00:06:42:00 Stephanie It's ongoing. Right, right. 00:06:42:20 - 00:07:04:05 Stephanie That's why that's my motto. It's like the minute something changes it automatically changes everything around you. It just it's you know, even when we change ourselves, we change the way people relate to us. You know, as like we think we have to change other people. But in reality, when we make those changes, other people have to adapt to to. 00:07:04:11 - 00:07:10:03 Shaniqua That is a message. And I received it. 00:07:14:07 - 00:07:23:03 Stephanie Well, let’s talk about change. Like I'm curious, you know, how were - What were you taught about change growing up or how do you, you know, like what? How do you think about change? 00:07:24:17 - 00:07:46:21 Shaniqua Well, so. What I was taught, it wasn't necessarily change like per se. It was more of, I'm curious if you ever heard this, like this saying, be better than me. Like my mother, my grandparents, my my father, like all wanted us to be better than they were. And it was that exact quote, be better than me, you know? 00:07:46:23 - 00:07:52:05 Stephanie So as a parent, I, I feel that I as a parent, to receive. 00:07:52:07 - 00:07:53:03 Speaker 2 00:07:53:05 - 00:07:59:15 Shaniqua Yeah. It was like so when I look back on it, I was like precious and like very, you know, sincere. It's from the heart. 00:07:59:17 - 00:08:01:01 Stephanie It's like permission to change. 00:08:02:09 - 00:08:47:11 Shaniqua But I will also say, like, I think subtly, the change was rooted in like, I guess defining as what I was born into or what I had wasn't enough. And that, the be better than me was more on material. So I know like I also think mindset as well. But like I share with you before like I, I only speak AAB when I'm home, but I wasn't it wasn't something that you grew up proud to speak because you have to be better than your generation so you can assimilate so you can achieve the American dream, so to speak. 00:08:47:11 - 00:08:53:11 Shaniqua So change is like a double edged sword for me. What about you? 00:08:53:13 - 00:09:06:00 Stephanie I think it's interesting because it felt very much that way to me. But probably from a very different perspective and, change. So. 00:09:06:02 - 00:09:07:09 Speaker 2 00:09:07:11 - 00:09:38:08 Stephanie Well, I would say that change was not encouraged in my life like there was I think change was there was more fear around change. A little bit of a don't rock the boat kind of a message like. And so I would maybe take that message to privilege. Don't lose what you have, you know, like, you want to make sure that you align and fit in. 00:09:38:10 - 00:09:38:20 Stephanie And for me. 00:09:38:20 - 00:09:40:19 Speaker 2 00:09:40:21 - 00:10:12:01 Stephanie And there wasn't and I don't think that that message was like a clear message. I think it was presented to me in lots of different ways, you know, to the way that the the expectations that were set for me to the way that we were disciplined just through even the examples that were set for us, you know, and, but I think it's always interesting, like what we take from our messages, you know, like what we're able to, you know, take with us and use and what we leave, you know, what we need to leave behind. 00:10:12:03 - 00:10:33:06 Stephanie And for me, there is an aspect about change where because I had like, this really complicated medical background and I was always in and out of surgeries and there were always things that I had no control over at all that were changing that I had, like, and I had to sort of learn to embrace chaos like I had like in a very, very early age. 00:10:33:08 - 00:10:57:02 Stephanie I just had to I didn't always even have my parents right there with me. You know, sometimes I was just in a hospital with strangers. And so this is like an element of like, change energy chaos is sort of the, you know, in my in so when I say like the don't rock the boat like structure and order was modeled in my house, like everything was very ordered, very structured, you know, very linear. 00:10:57:02 - 00:10:59:18 Stephanie And there's one path you could follow, you know. 00:10:59:18 - 00:11:16:16 Shaniqua It's almost like with your medical, like, I don't want to see, say, condition, but with your, you the need to seek medical attention, you were, like, innately you were bringing forth like, who you were. You know, you were challenging. 00:11:16:16 - 00:11:18:15 Stephanie It was constant change, the norm. 00:11:18:20 - 00:11:19:11 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:11:19:13 - 00:11:21:14 Stephanie I was constant ambiguity, constant. 00:11:21:14 - 00:11:24:18 Speaker 2 Delays, just like from the beginning from. 00:11:24:21 - 00:11:27:11 Shaniqua Like a change advocate, change evangelist. 00:11:27:14 - 00:11:27:18 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:11:27:18 - 00:11:48:15 Stephanie I mean for certainly for parents who like, really wanted everything to like work a certain way. And, and my parents were loving and they loved me. Yeah. But you know, it's like I, I know that just from like, literally day one, I was creating like uncertainty, ambiguity. And it wasn't me, but it was my, you know, what I was going through in my existence. 00:11:48:20 - 00:12:00:07 Stephanie But my own experience with that was, I mean, to integrate it to just so I'd say at some point, you know, part of the why my hair might change, you know, every 2 to 3 months and. 00:12:00:09 - 00:12:02:20 Speaker 2 You know, but like, it's just because I love it. 00:12:02:22 - 00:12:13:03 Stephanie But, you know, it's like I just I don't run away from change in the same way, you know, like if I, for example, I've never had a job when I left a job. 00:12:14:04 - 00:12:37:01 Stephanie Right. I've just made that change right when it didn't feel right because I was able to develop. So it's like I think with my parents I took the, I accepted the existence of structure and order and knew that there were ways that I needed to learn how to participate. You know, no matter what I was doing then, you know, and the way I do business today, I still have to have a certain structure in order to the business. 00:12:37:01 - 00:12:47:18 Stephanie Like you have to have a discipline on it. But I just I embrace change and I, I love and thrive on it. I always been like, wow, well, what comes next? 00:12:47:20 - 00:13:13:16 Shaniqua That's so fascinating because I had like more like chaos in my structure and I needed to create like the I had more chaos in my environment, and I created the structure so I could feel safe and, have like a clear path for. So that's pretty unique that we, are like the same sides. We're different sides of the coin. 00:13:13:16 - 00:13:23:02 Shaniqua You know, that's pretty fascinating as well. So you you mentioned like you navigate change, but it sounds like just taking it head on. Right. 00:13:23:04 - 00:13:43:16 Stephanie You know, I, I always start really with like intuitively what am I feeling and what needs to happen. I mean, like for me personally, it's like I know if I'm avoiding something, even if I'm like doing all the things to pretend like I don't know what, right? Like I'm I just don't get the luxury of not having that awareness, honestly. 00:13:43:16 - 00:13:44:24 Stephanie Like, hey, something. 00:13:44:24 - 00:13:49:20 Shaniqua Like hundred percent. I get that, like awareness is right there with you. 00:13:49:22 - 00:13:53:04 Speaker 2 It's tethered. Kind of like a third is. That's the truth. 00:13:53:04 - 00:14:15:02 Stephanie So I inherently and instinctively I, I will know when change is even coming, you know, like even before it's happening. And, and that could be like in big and small ways, you know, it could be like a that could be a very personal thing. That could be a very like, oh, well, something is shifting, you know, and I can have that just inner energetic sense around that. 00:14:15:23 - 00:14:22:06 Stephanie But I guess my first instinct with it is always curiosity before panic. 00:14:23:01 - 00:14:42:23 Stephanie And so that helps, you know, curiosity, you know, I it's and trust me, I can I can totally go into the panic space. But I've done a lot of work in my life, right. To find that balance of that change in and of itself is something that I can really use as an exploration or, you know, way to learn more. 00:14:42:23 - 00:14:49:23 Stephanie You know, it's like we learn from change. We learn a lot from change, whether we want to or not. Sometimes. 00:14:51:14 - 00:15:21:08 Shaniqua Well, for me, so having structure, like creating my own structure, my, I was more of like the director of change in my life, like, because I knew, like, I would set, you know, set a goal, create a plan, execute, achieve the goal. And change is more of a byproduct because it's who you are. When you set the goal isn't necessarily who you will be when you achieve the goal, because there's like sub quests along the way. 00:15:21:08 - 00:15:21:17 Shaniqua Right? 00:15:21:20 - 00:15:23:19 Stephanie That's a great way of putting that. Yes. 00:15:23:21 - 00:15:52:17 Shaniqua So like change was more of a byproduct narrative change. I evolved over time, but it was still so control like I knew what I needed to do. I did it well and this was all like maybe this way of my life and till like post-pandemic. So majority of my life. And I will say, since life as of now, I feel like I've graduated into like true adulthood where it is chaos. 00:15:52:17 - 00:16:24:14 Shaniqua There's more complexity now that I'm with like a partner. We're building a life together. I'm in control of nothing, you know, except for like, so I just feel like I'm now surrendering to and just accepting the things that I cannot control, which is of itself change. And, it's I'm realizing that the surrender, the that is it an innate or an instinct, the innate thing that. 00:16:24:16 - 00:16:36:00 Shaniqua Well, it's not something I was taught. I'm the quintessential strong black woman, you know, resilient, surrender is not synonymous with resilience. 00:16:36:02 - 00:16:44:11 Stephanie Surrender was also not a part of my vocabulary growing up either. Yeah, there was definitely a hold your ground mentality. 00:16:44:11 - 00:16:47:10 Shaniqua And 100%, that's why we see eye to eye. We we get it. 00:16:49:24 - 00:17:11:16 Shaniqua And so now it is here I am, I would say up until like, maybe like a a few months ago, really, I've just been, like, digging my heels and trying to find some sort of like, like, I guess building blocks that I can start creating my frameworks again, and they're just not there. That has changed. 00:17:14:07 - 00:17:19:24 Shaniqua So I'm. I’m looking to you for for tips and tricks on navigating chaotic. 00:17:19:24 - 00:17:24:17 Stephanie Change. I, you know, I've got two things immediately and one, my little sign that's. 00:17:24:23 - 00:17:27:24 Speaker 2 Like, right there. Okay, I'll like for you little sign. 00:17:28:00 - 00:17:29:21 Shaniqua You got to like that. Like zoom. 00:17:29:21 - 00:18:00:22 Stephanie In. I know after I will, I'll do it. I'll put like it says, live by what you trust, not by what you fear. So that right there again goes back to intuition and instincts and trusting yourself, right? Like, just live in that space, make choices from from trust, not from fear. A lot of times when we are avoiding or resisting change, we really do make choices out of that fear space of, of, you know, trying to keep things the same. 00:18:00:24 - 00:18:06:21 Stephanie And the change is going to just keep happening. Like it's just like not going to stop just because you don't want it to. 00:18:08:05 - 00:18:12:08 Shaniqua At this point, I recognize it's like Groundhog Day in my house. I feel like whenever we have our meetings, like. 00:18:13:11 - 00:18:14:22 Shaniqua Your like, Shaniqua I've heard this before, but, you know, it’s different. So that for that’s where it’s. 00:18:18:12 - 00:18:46:00 Stephanie All in evolution, right? It's like I think like it's all in evolution. The other thing though, and this is real, it's like and even, you know, when I'm working in business, I mean, I apply this rule to my life as a whole. But I say it and business all the time, which is like getting people to slow down before change and actually plan the change, you know, because so many times what happens is people will avoid problems to avoid dealing with something. 00:18:46:00 - 00:19:03:18 Stephanie They'll push something off, they'll put it procrastinate. All these things until it becomes a crisis. And then they're like, oh my God, we going to change it now? Oh my God. It's everything's got to change immediately. And it's like, well, wait a minute, you spent a good amount of time, like letting this get all screwed up, you know. 00:19:03:18 - 00:19:32:16 Stephanie And so one of my things is you, you can always change a plan, but you can never change chaos because chaos as an energy just stays chaotic. Right? So the what you can do the best that you can do is stop contributing to chaos. Right. Is to just like stop adding to the chaos. You can. And so when you make that, when you take that step back and go, okay, well I, I'm going to have a plan because there's value like and like there's, there's great value. 00:19:32:16 - 00:19:54:23 Stephanie And you know me just like bouncing from like moment to moment going, oh this is what I'm supposed to do. And there's also great value in having like a very specific like, oh, this is the path they want to follow. But there's real value in having that path, but not being so attached to it that you can't make a change to it as you learn and grow and go, oh, I was on this path, but now I do want to go in this direction. 00:19:55:00 - 00:20:15:04 Stephanie And that's okay. And that's not chaos. That's changing a plan versus, oh, I'm just like scrolling around and looping and going, and that's chaos. And it does need structure. And so there is a middle ground where you can sort of navigate change and still embrace the unknown. Right? 00:20:15:06 - 00:20:16:17 Speaker 2 00:20:16:19 - 00:20:19:18 Shaniqua Yes. I am just receiving all of these nuggets. 00:20:20:13 - 00:20:54:17 Shaniqua Because I feel like I mean this is truly why I wanted to talk about change like so there's change is happening I think to most of the people around me including myself like in the orbit, every time I turn on a TV, whether it's, a fictional story or non-fictional news, it's like there's change everywhere. And, I've been feeling a lot of uncertainty and and bits of anxiety. 00:20:54:17 - 00:21:09:09 Shaniqua And for me, I think I share this with you one of the idioms growing up is, tell the truth shame a devil and just like talking about it aloud releases the fear for me. 00:21:09:11 - 00:21:10:01 Speaker 2 Absolutely. 00:21:10:06 - 00:21:14:13 Shaniqua So I agree. Yeah. I mean, that's that's what I've been thinking about. 00:21:14:15 - 00:21:40:16 Stephanie I think the that is, I think we could take a quick break on that note, because that's something to ponder and come back and talk a little bit about the psychology of change and how that looks kind of for other people and why. And a little bit more about our series as a whole, what the audience can start getting really excited for marvelous. 00:21:41:15 - 00:21:53:21 Shaniqua All right, well, Stephanie, let's let's define exactly what change is. If you don't mind, I'd like take us. I decided to look it up in the Oxford Dictionary. 00:21:53:23 - 00:21:54:03 Stephanie Oh. 00:21:54:03 - 00:21:56:24 Speaker 2 I'm there. Well, there were two verb. 00:21:57:12 - 00:22:14:11 Shaniqua definitions and two noun definitions. I particularly found the verb definitions to be fascinating. So the first to make someone or something different alter, modify. 00:22:15:06 - 00:22:45:08 Shaniqua The second to replace something with something else, especially something of the same kind that is newer or better substituted one thing for another. And I find the latter more fascinating because it's essentially like it's defining whether it's like your, past or current state as being, like, not as good, and the future state to be that of like, it's, it's. 00:22:45:10 - 00:23:06:22 Stephanie Of some sort. Yes. I also find it and I guess I'm curious now we just read the nouns really quick because I feel like there's a definition missing. And I'm like, really? Those were the verbs. Like, even though those were like, both technically accurate in terms of what they were saying, there were also very weirdly analog. 00:23:06:24 - 00:23:07:18 Speaker 2 All right. 00:23:07:20 - 00:23:15:21 Shaniqua Well, so I feel like so the noun is, the first now the active or instance of making or becoming different. 00:23:15:23 - 00:23:19:20 Stephanie Okay. That's closer. That's interesting that that's a noun. 00:23:19:22 - 00:23:25:19 Shaniqua The second noun is 00:23:25:21 - 00:23:27:13 Stephanie Coins coins.. That's like I. 00:23:27:13 - 00:23:28:11 Shaniqua As opposed to paper. 00:23:28:17 - 00:23:46:13 Stephanie I expected coins to come up as a so that that first one is an. All right. Now we're going to just get into like grammar and language and my own confusion with life. But it's it's like when you're calling, you know, the act of doing something a noun, it feels sort of like you're calling a verb a noun. 00:23:46:13 - 00:23:52:19 Stephanie And because what I was looking for was transformation. Right. That sounds like that's the noun, right? 00:23:53:07 - 00:23:53:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:23:53:19 - 00:23:57:18 Stephanie The act of transforming. 00:23:57:20 - 00:24:00:21 Shaniqua Well, technically that would be the verb, because the verb is. 00:24:00:23 - 00:24:03:10 Stephanie That's what I mean. I feel like there's something missing here. 00:24:03:12 - 00:24:04:21 Speaker 2 Yeah, well. 00:24:04:23 - 00:24:27:09 Shaniqua So I feel like the, like, change without cause change happens. Right. And did not define as good or bad, I think would make more like the first definition makes more sense. Like to make someone or something different. Alter modify. Yeah. And I feel like that's like in its pure form. Like what? Change. Transformation. I agree with you. Yeah. 00:24:27:10 - 00:24:43:17 Shaniqua And then when we start to label, you know, in the second definition, that's where I think we kind of like, but it's also a thing which is an object. So perhaps don't be as people life itself. It's not. 00:24:43:17 - 00:25:04:13 Stephanie You could definitely change. I mean you could vandalize something and it would have been changed. Right. Like and so it seems weird. I agree with you in the context of the way that is written and worded. Yeah, that feels it. That's very perplexing to me. It doesn't it doesn't feel accurate. 00:25:05:04 - 00:25:05:18 Speaker 2 Okay. 00:25:05:24 - 00:25:08:17 Shaniqua That's it. The Oxford you gotta take is Oxford. 00:25:08:19 - 00:25:11:05 Stephanie Disagreeing with Oxford. 00:25:11:07 - 00:25:14:11 Shaniqua Here. You should write them a letter. Dear Oxford. 00:25:14:13 - 00:25:23:14 Stephanie Oxford sneering I will say that I do use the Oxford comma okay. So hopefully they'll like appreciate my letter and take it seriously. 00:25:25:20 - 00:25:27:00 Speaker 2 But that you know, I. 00:25:27:00 - 00:25:56:11 Stephanie Mean I think it is important to understand universal definitions of things, but then also how we defined it and perceive it in our own lives really affects our relationship to change, you know, as individuals. Right? And so even if the Oxford can break it down into such tactical perspectives, I guess, I think of change as being quite a bit more existential. 00:25:56:13 - 00:26:02:21 Stephanie And I think that that's why there's both resistance and fear associated with change. 00:26:02:21 - 00:26:16:09 Shaniqua Would you do you feel like maybe transmute transmutation would be more along the lines of what you're looking for, in regards to change? I mean, I think. 00:26:16:11 - 00:26:23:17 Stephanie You know, I think that actually fits into one of Oxford’s definitions. 00:26:23:17 - 00:26:31:15 Shaniqua Think that's more like, like in compensating. It's like changing, like form, whether that's spiritual, mental. 00:26:31:17 - 00:26:51:05 Stephanie Yeah. I guess on that level. Yeah. So I think that makes sense. But I think that there's like this nebulous aspect of, I mean, like like the, the, the, there's a proverb of, you know, you could never step into the same river twice. Right? Like the idea that things are just a change is a part of existence in and of itself, right? 00:26:51:05 - 00:27:11:17 Stephanie That there literally isn't anything that's ever not changing. You know, we think of the structures around us, you know, like, okay, so I'm sitting in a home and this is my house, and it's got walls and doors and everything. But, you know, I noticed, like the crack in the ceiling or, you know, like the, I mean, my, my home, even though it might be like, super, it's still changing. 00:27:11:17 - 00:27:36:01 Stephanie You know, we've seen massive, you know, like change with, you know, whether or taking out, you know, entire populations and things like that where like again, you know, those people, those homes, that perspective of like, oh, I'm in the stable structured space. But then all of a sudden a whole bunch of fires have now taken away everything that I perceived as stable and structured. 00:27:36:03 - 00:27:45:14 Stephanie Right now we have chaos, right. And like so like that very big existential way that like change is just sort of out there happening. 00:27:45:16 - 00:28:03:24 Shaniqua I agree with you. The definition doesn't it doesn't highlight that then. Yeah, it doesn't. The nature of change in how it exists in, in reality. So yeah, I agree with you on that. It's, it's very academic without any and I would say like not even academic. 00:28:03:24 - 00:28:09:10 Speaker 2 It's like I could land. I could never get that. I don't think that. 00:28:09:12 - 00:28:11:05 Stephanie Calling you out. Oxford. Okay. 00:28:11:05 - 00:28:15:17 Shaniqua Maybe they didn't like the change. You know, maybe they're not fans of that real. 00:28:15:19 - 00:28:18:12 Speaker 2 Well, yeah, it's an opportunity. Like, that's all I can say. 00:28:18:12 - 00:28:20:21 Stephanie Change is always an opportunity for change. 00:28:20:23 - 00:28:23:05 Speaker 2 And so. 00:28:23:07 - 00:28:44:08 Shaniqua Well, let's talk about like, the psychology of change and like how change happens. I know before we came back from the break, you were, excited. Well, during our break, you were excited to share, what you've learned about the psychology of psychology, a change from, like, the research and your own experience. 00:28:44:10 - 00:28:45:13 Speaker 2 Yeah, well, you. 00:28:45:13 - 00:29:10:05 Stephanie Know, again, it's like most people, I think, approach change with a certain amount of anxiety. You know, some people actually fear change. But I think that in general, like if, if, for example, if you think about people at work and when you know that there's change happening, but you don't necessarily know what those changes are, that ambiguity like can really create a lot of tension, right? 00:29:10:05 - 00:29:20:16 Stephanie In the in the culture and in the environment. So I think most people sort of like have that negative perception of change, which is really interesting and kind of goes, I can see Oxford. It's like, no, it's Oxford says. 00:29:20:16 - 00:29:22:22 Speaker 2 It's going to be better. 00:29:22:24 - 00:29:25:00 Shaniqua You're just altering or modifying. 00:29:25:04 - 00:29:28:08 Speaker 2 You're just chill out. 00:29:28:10 - 00:29:30:14 Shaniqua No need to fear reality. 00:29:30:14 - 00:29:48:16 Stephanie Most people are really like, you know, they get anxious and they want to resist change. They're like, well, no, wait a minute. I, I, you know, I know how this works and I know what the outcomes are right here. And then, like, even if those outcomes are crappy and bad, like, at least they're known, right? Like we know what to expect, and that's okay. 00:29:48:21 - 00:30:06:16 Stephanie But now you want me to change? What if it gets worse? Like, that's, you know, almost always a person. Like, what if what if something happens that's outside of my control? What if I'm not even thinking about all the possible things that could occur if we change, you know, and it's like, it just this, all this stuff that I think comes up for people. 00:30:06:18 - 00:30:28:16 Stephanie And so people resist change based on fear, but they also base, on lack of trust, like if they don't trust the situation or if they don't trust themselves, they're going to be more resistant to change. They resist it because they fear what they're going to lose out on. Like, you know, just sort of like I would like I was raised in that space of like, you don't want to lose what you already have, right? 00:30:28:16 - 00:30:33:21 Stephanie So you don't want to make a change because you might lose something that you've already got. 00:30:33:23 - 00:31:06:15 Shaniqua And what do you think about like, time because as you are sharing like the, the fear, the resistance, resistance, I recall learning, like a new, like, requisition, opening tool that we were using at one of the companies I worked for in the past, and I recall just not wanting to move like, to work with this tool because I just didn't have the time. 00:31:06:17 - 00:31:27:21 Shaniqua Like, my my time was perfectly mapped to the process that we initially had, and they weren't like, allowing me. They didn't take like, my workload wasn't, relieved so I could spend time learning this new tool. So I was quite resistant to make that transition. 00:31:27:22 - 00:31:49:05 Stephanie I think that's interesting, especially bringing, like that type because, you know, we talk about change management, right. And business. Right. And we in business we get ready to make that change. You get ready to like stop the chaos or do whatever. And ideally from a change management perspective, you've studied the problem. You have a value proposition. You have a solution. 00:31:49:05 - 00:32:08:04 Stephanie You understand, like what the ROI is going to be, all of these things and a big piece of change management is connecting the people who actually have to implement the change and who are going to be affected by it the most, to the purpose and value of what that change is for. And if that doesn't happen, then you have like failed in your process of change, right? 00:32:08:04 - 00:32:29:14 Stephanie Like that change management piece of it has not been successful. It doesn't really matter even if everything gets implemented, if you don't get the buy in, and that buy in shouldn't happen very early on in the process. And typically what happens is all of that examining and researching and, you know, meeting with like, you know, because people, here's a people like new stuff right. 00:32:29:16 - 00:32:50:15 Stephanie Talking about like change, you know, that improve that. Right. So so there's there's somebody out there that like, wants the great new system. There's somebody out there that wants the shiny new thing. Right. But in business especially implementing that requires process change. It requires, you know, collaboration, change sometimes different time. 00:32:51:06 - 00:33:06:18 Stephanie And then the time comes in and if and again, if you're not connected to the value of how like, how does that improve your world specifically, then the buy in just isn't going to happen, and you're never going to get the productivity that you want from it, you know. 00:33:06:18 - 00:33:26:22 Shaniqua Right. And I would I would even go on to say like when you like, I was connected to it because I was connected to the value proposition. It made sense, but I did not have actual time to implement it into my workflow. You know, because it's change management in a business. I feel like business world is, this big initiative. 00:33:26:22 - 00:33:30:06 Shaniqua But then it really comes down to the individual doing the work. 00:33:30:08 - 00:33:32:13 Speaker 2 And did it solve a problem? 00:33:32:13 - 00:33:50:05 Stephanie Because again, like when you talk about not having time, it's like what I'm doing right now serves the purpose. It goes back to that kind of why it's like, what do I lose or gain if I make this change, right? Because if I'm going to lose more time and it's not going to like, give me a game, I'm going to resist the change. 00:33:50:07 - 00:33:54:04 Stephanie I'm just simply going to keep doing the easiest thing that gets the thing done. 00:33:54:06 - 00:34:15:20 Shaniqua And I will say, I think that like companies and I think this is maybe challenging how we work and instead of when change management is being rolled out, maybe our change management listeners would agree. I'm curious what they would think. But like, it's really it's really difficult to do your actual job, your responsibilities and then add change. 00:34:16:00 - 00:34:16:06 Speaker 2 Because. 00:34:16:11 - 00:34:34:00 Shaniqua Your 8 to 10 to 12 hours that you're working, your workload isn't reduced because change is introduced. Like, how can we, as, business leaders and change management, you know, consultants like, help the individuals, like, actually role. I mean. 00:34:34:02 - 00:34:35:03 Speaker 2 This is all for real. 00:34:35:03 - 00:34:57:21 Stephanie The real answer is one that nobody likes to hear, and that's that change costs time and money and it's and it deserves it. And instead of like doubling the workload of somebody who's already probably overworked and undervalued and their space that they're on just because that's the way corporate is always trying to take as much as it can from the worker. 00:34:57:21 - 00:35:22:13 Stephanie Right. But realistically they overlook the fact that when they burn out their employees, when they don't value them properly with it, that creates a lot of unnecessary change. People leave, people quit their jobs, they they start quitting. They start becoming less productive. Like all these changes are still happening even when they don't want to like take the time to implement change properly, right? 00:35:22:17 - 00:35:43:00 Stephanie Like because if they're implementing it properly, you shouldn't be feeling the stress of that change. That's the whole point is, really realistically in the world where it can be and should be controlled. Right, like change in your personal life. You know, we talked about change management. Can you do change management in your personal life? 00:35:43:02 - 00:35:48:16 Speaker 2 Right. Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe sometimes. Yes, you can. 00:35:48:16 - 00:36:08:23 Stephanie Make really conscious choices about change and be good, but sometimes things just happen right on a personal level and you just have to respond to that change. Somebody you care about might pass away. You know, you might have to change some critical aspect of your life because of something that happens to your own physicality. There are changes that come up for us. 00:36:09:00 - 00:36:12:09 Stephanie You know, there's we're change managing after the fact. But in. 00:36:12:09 - 00:36:13:23 Speaker 2 Business. 00:36:14:00 - 00:36:25:03 Stephanie In business, oftentimes there are, especially if you're doing business well, you're managing change ahead of the problem as opposed to reacting to the problem. 00:36:25:05 - 00:36:39:01 Shaniqua So you're saying no matter what, you're going to have it like a cost for change. And if you are more proactive about it, then you can, carve out time to allow your employees, your team to get up to speed. If not, then change. 00:36:39:01 - 00:37:04:04 Stephanie Is always happening. It's there's a cost for changing with change, and there's a cost for resisting change. Right. And most people look at the cost of changing with change and don't want to look at the cost of resisting change. And that is this cost always costs more right. Resisting at all. And there's a difference between sort of sustaining and maintaining. 00:37:04:04 - 00:37:04:11 Shaniqua Like. 00:37:04:12 - 00:37:37:08 Stephanie You know there's this is like there are things that can be more stable, more structured. You know, not everything has to be changing at the same rate of speed. But when change has to be implemented and it's a very conscious thing, again, we go back to it most. Most of the time, they wait until businesses will wait until there's a crisis instead of iterating and refining as they go, making subtle, small changes, they want to make big changes all at once, and then they don't want that to end, to impact the flow of business. 00:37:37:08 - 00:37:43:21 Stephanie Right? So again, instead of slowing it down to make the change, they dump that change. 00:37:43:23 - 00:37:45:10 Speaker 2 And create. 00:37:45:12 - 00:37:48:04 Stephanie A harder change process. That's an. 00:37:48:04 - 00:37:55:00 Speaker 2 Opinion okay. Yeah. Well I I will say 00:37:55:02 - 00:38:09:13 Shaniqua So I saw, I researched like how change to happen in like companies and society and individual people. So I'm curious about your thoughts and all three. So I'll start with business since we were talking about business. 00:38:09:15 - 00:38:09:21 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:38:10:11 - 00:38:28:08 Shaniqua So the change in business, there's four steps there. So planning, which is vital to help deliver the change. There's a vision connecting the change with an idea, an ideology. There's data. I'm sorry. I can't count like that. 00:38:28:10 - 00:38:33:24 Speaker 2 And you're doing it. We're on three, three days, and serial. 00:38:34:11 - 00:38:53:17 Shaniqua Data is a third. In order to support the plans, right? Because, you know, you have the idea that you need to have, like, the data to back it. And then the last is flexibility, being flexible with your plans because it's not linear. Right. Yeah. To what do you think about those four change steps in business? 00:38:53:19 - 00:39:31:06 Stephanie I think that if if more businesses accepted that that fourth step was really critical. It's actually step two and four that I think. Yeah, I think businesses really focus on planning and data. They don't always focus enough on connecting people into the vision. Sometimes for various reasons, they withhold that vision, you know, and they may think it's strategic or not, but and then I think, you know on that flexibility piece they get too locked into the outcome that they're looking for. 00:39:31:08 - 00:39:52:05 Stephanie And so it doesn't allow for necessarily flexibility. You know again maybe they need to slow down. Maybe the need to like shift direction slightly. I often say sometimes when we work really really we're working so fast we get halfway done and we realize we're solving the wrong problem, you know, because we're just not taking enough time to iterate and understand what the actual real problem. 00:39:52:07 - 00:40:12:07 Stephanie And so we're just changing everything is again, everything is always even when you're not changing change brings change. Not change. It's still change, okay? It's like just because you you know what Rush says the “the the decision not to decide is still a choice,” right? Like it's it's like just because you're not making a choice, does it mean that you're not making a choice? 00:40:12:09 - 00:40:29:19 Shaniqua Right. I agree with you. And, and I think a lot of change is like spearheaded by data versus a true actual plan and a vision. It's like, well, the data says and now we're just like marching in a direction because of the data. It's like, but does this even align with our core values? 00:40:29:19 - 00:40:57:06 Stephanie It's really interesting because the way that that those four steps align, it goes from sort of doing to being to doing to being. And those these are important aspects of just how we flow as humans. Right? We need that being time so that we can process the doing. If we're just doing doing doing doing doing worse we're wasting like lots of time and energy and we're we're not going to get the result back on it. 00:40:57:08 - 00:41:16:01 Shaniqua Well let's change gears and talk about changes society. So there is two two point in change in society. The first was social movements inspired by political, economic. You know, like I guess, I get. 00:41:16:01 - 00:41:18:12 Stephanie A lot of that going on now. Like the really. 00:41:18:12 - 00:41:54:15 Shaniqua None of that. None so boring today. And then the second I found quite interesting, but it makes so much sense interactions interacting with other people that sparks change in society. So when you're this, reminds me of, like, when I'm, like, having conversations with, like, my friends that, like, are in more homogenous communities, like, oh, you know, like, I didn't see it that way as I'm telling them stories about, like, you know, being that with diverse groups and what I'm learning, what I'm exploring, what I'm eating, you know, it's like, oh, I would have never thought about it in that way, you know? 00:41:54:15 - 00:41:58:02 Shaniqua So, interactions is very important. 00:41:58:04 - 00:41:59:00 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:41:59:02 - 00:42:17:13 Stephanie I, I well, it's interesting because I, you know, I had looked at I've looked at fear of change. It was, came across the actual word for phobia, for the phobia of change, which I have to read it, a meta meta....Metathesiophobia. 00:42:17:15 - 00:42:18:24 Shaniqua Metathesiophobia. 00:42:19:05 - 00:42:53:16 Stephanie Metathesiophobia., and some of the symptoms of being like phobic level afraid of change is isolation, avoiding social situations, anxiety around interactions with people, getting angry because people want to talk about changing things. Things that are changing in society, literally. And it creates an actual phobic response. And I you know, I look at that because I think, you know, it's like it's kind of like we say, you know, people fear change and that's kind of a thing. 00:42:53:16 - 00:43:14:06 Stephanie But it's like right now I think there's a lot of people to have that really do fear change like and in ways that are not healthy for them or society. Right. Because it's and so I, I think it's interesting bringing it up on that social level of interaction, because I don't think we interact with each other as much as we used to. 00:43:14:08 - 00:43:44:00 Stephanie And I don't think it's been good for us on a social level. Like even within family systems, I see like more fragmentation, people more, you know, like like when I was a kid, we went to family reunions every single year. And they were they agree. I'm all these people that I only saw, like at that summer reunion, but it was like 60 people, you know, and I'm like trying to remember when's the last time we had more than like 12 family members together? 00:43:44:00 - 00:44:05:03 Stephanie Eight. You know, I mean, like, honestly, I wouldn't even I wouldn't even know where to start, right, to bring together 60 blood related people in my life. Right. Like those interactions don't exist. And that's just like in my family on that familial level. But I see that replicated in so many different ways and community. 00:44:05:03 - 00:44:16:14 Shaniqua Bring you and anyone else home with me to Florida. I go home quarterly and I think my mom, siblings and their kids, it's like 40 of us. I will bring you home with me, please. 00:44:16:14 - 00:44:19:13 Stephanie I they're loud. Like I totally crave that. 00:44:19:15 - 00:44:27:12 Shaniqua You'll enjoy it. It's like the loving dysfunction that everyone longs for, you know, it's like we're all aware. 00:44:27:14 - 00:44:28:19 Speaker 2 It's all love. 00:44:28:20 - 00:44:48:04 Stephanie I did grow up wanting to be like, you know, one of like, six kids think. And almost all of my friends have multiple siblings, including my husband, who was four, you know, like I have I have a I have a brother. And we love each other dearly. We have a really close relationship. But he you know, he lives in a totally like several states away. 00:44:48:06 - 00:44:52:15 Stephanie And I live in the middle of Texas, which means I'm already like several states away from. 00:44:52:15 - 00:44:57:22 Speaker 2 Several states in Texas. Yeah, it's like. 00:44:57:24 - 00:45:01:14 Shaniqua I believe in Texas, they call them counties. 00:45:01:16 - 00:45:03:13 Speaker 2 They they're they're. 00:45:03:15 - 00:45:33:13 Shaniqua Massive. Yeah. You're like eight hours to the next border. Fantastic. You want to hear the the changes in people. So you do you find this interesting? So there's this I saw this article. I believe it was, Psychology Today. We'll link it, but I have to read it because I didn't memorize it. But when I was reading it, it sounded like what I did naturally, when I share with anyone in, they ask about my workout, like, oh, do you? 00:45:33:16 - 00:46:07:06 Shaniqua When I'm off season, like, are you working out? I'm like, no, I'm working out mentally. Like what? But I always start like a mental, like whatever I'm setting up to do, I start mentally and then I move forward with the due and all that. So without further ado, the five stages. The first stage is pre contemplation. So this is like when someone is like they're not aware of the problem or an issue, they're existing and there's no plan to change the intuition. 00:46:07:08 - 00:46:09:19 Stephanie It's like something you don't even know yet. 00:46:09:21 - 00:46:14:13 Shaniqua Not even yet. It's not on your radar. So this is like subconscious mind. 00:46:15:06 - 00:46:15:10 Speaker 2 The. 00:46:15:10 - 00:46:33:07 Shaniqua Second stage is contemplation. And so this is when the person becomes aware they haven't necessarily committed to the change. And researchers noted that people at this stage are more ambivalent. I'm sorry. They know they need the change, but they're not ready to actually change. 00:46:33:09 - 00:46:36:03 Speaker 2 So yes. So a lot of people are. 00:46:36:03 - 00:46:38:08 Stephanie Stuck in that state. 00:46:38:22 - 00:46:39:08 Stephanie That's just a guess. 00:46:39:08 - 00:46:40:21 Speaker 2 00:46:40:23 - 00:46:52:13 Shaniqua Yeah. Well they do because like you may not know how to do it. That's what usually people say. But I think it's just like for me I go like you're not taking action. I don't know how to do things. 00:46:52:15 - 00:47:01:14 Stephanie Yeah there's certain actions you may or may not want to take. Knowledge is one thing, but we have so much knowledge available to us, it's not hard to know how to do something. Yeah. 00:47:01:15 - 00:47:02:02 Shaniqua Google it. 00:47:02:08 - 00:47:05:11 Speaker 2 Right. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Hi. 00:47:05:13 - 00:47:07:17 Shaniqua I'm like Kim Kardashian. Just go to work. 00:47:07:21 - 00:47:10:19 Stephanie AI would, like, develop a full change plan for you. Like, it'll Just, like, all like. 00:47:11:23 - 00:47:34:20 Shaniqua It will tell you what you need to do. The third stage is the action, right? It's a oh, I'm sorry. The third stage is a preparation. So you're committed to the change. You intend to take action within the next month. So not only are you self-aware, you're like, I am. I'm going to like, not, I haven't had a drink and I'm not going to buy a drink from here on out. 00:47:34:24 - 00:47:35:08 Shaniqua Right? 00:47:35:08 - 00:47:39:19 Stephanie Like, you start making a plan to how that change is going to look in real life. Like. 00:47:39:19 - 00:47:41:15 Speaker 2 Exactly. Yes. 00:47:41:17 - 00:48:08:07 Shaniqua The fourth is action. So you're strong. There's a strong commitment to the intention, intentionality of change. You're self-directed. This stage lasts about six months because after like this time, you're starting to you create more of a behavioral, as it becomes part of like, who you are. And so to help when I'm like, navigating change, I like to change my statements about myself. 00:48:08:07 - 00:48:28:17 Shaniqua Like I'll say something like, I am a person who does not drink, I do not drink. So instead of saying like, if someone asks me, do you want, an alcoholic beverage, I do something I personally don't drink. You know, I'll say something along those lines so it now becomes a part of who I am. And then the fifth stage is maintenance. 00:48:28:17 - 00:48:55:21 Shaniqua So this sustains a behavior change indefinitely, and it's fully integrated into your behavior. Change of your life. So the goal isn't to get to maintenance. And the researchers I forgot the name I think is progress pro task. And documenting. We'll link them so they can get their credit on this research. They were researching, cigaret smokers. 00:48:55:23 - 00:49:14:03 Shaniqua So this is actually quite fascinating. But they made a point to say that, like, change isn't linear, it's spiral. So instead of being, like beating oneself up about, getting like stuck or relapsing. 00:49:14:22 - 00:49:29:14 Shaniqua Just take note and chin maybe you need to stay there a little bit longer until you feel more committed to it. But as you called out, people typically say get stuck in contemplation and they get stuck in the, action stage. 00:49:29:16 - 00:49:44:11 Stephanie I believe that for sure, because if you can get through the planning stage, you'll I mean, yeah, you would take action. Like, if you can get to that part of planning, you're probably going to take that action. I'm here. Have you, did you have a did you smoke cigarets in your life? Have you ever. 00:49:44:16 - 00:49:46:03 Shaniqua I have smoked a cigaret. Yeah. 00:49:46:05 - 00:50:04:20 Stephanie But have you had a cigaret addiction? Have you given up cigarets specifically because I'm curious. It's like, I had a cigaret addiction. I started smoking cigarets around the age of 12, and I had a pretty strong, addictive pattern until I was about 25 or 26. 00:50:04:22 - 00:50:05:07 Shaniqua And, 00:50:05:09 - 00:50:28:08 Stephanie And I had to take pulmonary lung tests, and I was required to change my addiction pattern. And to the degree that my doctor brought my husband into his office alone and said, are you prepared to be a single father? Because if she doesn't quit smoking, she's she will die like in like 2 to 3 years. Her lungs will not support smoking like that. 00:50:28:08 - 00:50:38:09 Stephanie And so I had to quit smoking whether I wanted to or not. I guess I could have kept smoking, but I, you know, I had a five year old and I was in love with my husband and wanted to live one, to. 00:50:38:09 - 00:50:38:19 Shaniqua Live. 00:50:38:22 - 00:50:40:23 Stephanie And just live my life. Right. So the choice. 00:50:40:23 - 00:50:41:08 Shaniqua You made. 00:50:41:21 - 00:51:11:20 Stephanie And I worked at the time in an environment where smoking wasn't just the thing I worked in technology and I was in sales, and I worked with the engineers, and all the engineers smoked and all the, like, really important strategic client conversation that's happened out of the smoking table with the engineers. So if I didn't know if I, if I didn't go out there with them while they're smoking and I was a top sales rep, I, you know, it was it was important. 00:51:11:20 - 00:51:29:08 Stephanie It was something that mattered to me. Right. And if I didn't go out there while they were smoking, I'm pulling myself out of this opportunity. So I had to make some really conscious choices about, you know, that one, quitting the addiction of nicotine is difficult, and that's interesting. It makes sense that they would study that because it's common enough. 00:51:29:08 - 00:51:59:15 Stephanie It's very challenging to quit. The first year that I quit, I kept a cigaret and my cigaret behind my ear for the whole year, the same cigaret. I kept it with me, and I'd sit there sometimes and hold it in my hand while it was talking. After that year and I threw it away, I would, I'd so I'd still go out and like hang out with the engineers, but I'd hold my cigaret, I'd sit a little bit upwind or away, you know, like, downwind, I guess away from, you know, the smoke. 00:51:59:17 - 00:52:24:18 Stephanie But I didn't, you know, I had to make these choices about what I could handle and sustain and maintain. It took me a full year to quit. I did not quit cold turkey, but pretty close. Pretty close. But I can't, you know, I smoked a little bit, and then every year for five years, I would have a cigaret on a particular day, when every five years I would have a cigaret until I remember that, like, it was like that would have been the next five years. 00:52:24:18 - 00:52:35:13 Stephanie So I was like, the last one really sucked. Like, I remember that for five full years that the last one I smoked five years ago was like it was a horrible experience and I didn't enjoy it. 00:52:35:15 - 00:52:37:16 Shaniqua Did it taste different like it was? 00:52:37:16 - 00:52:53:19 Stephanie It tasted like poison because that's what it was. And then it's like, and I just, you know, it's like one of those things I just that's how I felt was not a linear our process. You know, my husband eventually quit too. But I didn't quit when I quit. So he had to go through his own, you know, process. 00:52:53:21 - 00:53:06:20 Stephanie And so those types of changes, I think when you were describing the steps, I was thinking about, like the, when you set a New Year's resolution because you talked about the, the preconception and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's like in October before Halloween. 00:53:06:22 - 00:53:10:16 Speaker 2 Right. Thank you. Right. You started going like, oh. 00:53:10:16 - 00:53:12:07 Stephanie Wait, it's about to be here. 00:53:12:07 - 00:53:13:01 Speaker 2 But you know. 00:53:13:01 - 00:53:22:15 Stephanie You're still like and you're just still figuring out where you're going to be wearing for Halloween. But then you get into like in November and you're like, oh crap, I'm going to have to like set a resolution, right? 00:53:22:15 - 00:53:24:10 Speaker 2 Like, this is like the mindset. 00:53:24:16 - 00:53:42:24 Stephanie And then you get to the point. You're like, resolution, setting time. Okay, what's my plan? Am I going to be working out more? Am I going to quit drinking? And then you get to that like first stage where you have to take an action and be like at the party and go, no, I'll have something else or, you know, and then you have to do that, you know, like 60 times in a row. 00:53:43:01 - 00:53:46:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, you integrate it and then. Yeah. 00:53:46:12 - 00:54:14:10 Shaniqua I understand exactly. You know, I would say the same but different. Like I recognize that I was having I would have a cocktail maybe two and my, I would have a hangover as if I binge drank like a 19 year old college student and someone buying a plastic bottle of vodka. Like it felt horrible and I would allow this to happen every weekend. 00:54:14:10 - 00:54:36:14 Shaniqua You know, like after work, you go for a Friday happy hour, and then on Saturday or Sunday you're going to brunch at your girlfriend's. And I just recognize I am hurting myself. Why am I doing this over and over again? Now I'm out. I feel like crap on Monday. And so I just, I, I think I enjoy similar fashion, like, you know, there's like fun happening. 00:54:36:14 - 00:54:57:24 Shaniqua There's more, you know, the drinking is so, so intertwined into social life as an adult, especially an adult without kids. All I feel like all you're doing is drinking. And, I had to make a change just so I could actually experience life and no longer be down. 00:54:58:03 - 00:55:21:22 Stephanie It goes back kind of to what you were talking about earlier with interaction in general. And what's interesting is, you know, we were talking about how fear of pain, fear of loss, fear of these things can cause you to be resistant. But right now, we are talking about how being tired of pain not wanting, loss, not money like can also motivate change, right? 00:55:21:22 - 00:55:29:19 Stephanie Like because that's literally, you know, the opposite side of that coin is, oh wow, I don't want to die. I might want to change this habit. Right? Like, I don't. 00:55:29:19 - 00:55:33:06 Speaker 2 Want to live, I want to live. I don't want to feel like shit every Saturday. 00:55:33:06 - 00:55:33:24 Stephanie I'm sorry. You know. 00:55:34:05 - 00:55:36:03 Speaker 2 Every Saturday morning, you know? 00:55:36:03 - 00:55:53:22 Stephanie So I'm going to change this habit because I'm seeing it over and over. I can't deny it. I'm no longer in pre-conception phase. I am aware I see it over and over again. So now if I am choosing, I'm making a choice. I'm making a conscious choice to say, oh, I know I want to feel bad every other day. 00:55:53:24 - 00:56:05:24 Stephanie And when I make that conscious choice to feel that every Saturday. So it does become one of those things where you are you going to hold yourself accountable to change to your own change, right? Like in some people do get stuck in. 00:56:05:24 - 00:56:07:17 Speaker 2 The that feels. 00:56:07:17 - 00:56:30:01 Stephanie Better. To feel bad is, you know, it's like the again the the devil, you know like the bad that I now like. And a lot of times that in this gets into like my whole world of why people don't change. They are avoiding emotions. Right. You're already like masking emotions with whatever it is you're doing with the alcohol, with the cigaret, with the whatever. 00:56:30:03 - 00:56:50:22 Stephanie And when you release that, you release that mask, you release that tool, that resource that's available to you. I may not be the healthiest resource, but it's served you. And it's why people have such a difficult time making those choices of like, well what's going to serve me if I don't have this. And it's learning how to serve yourself right. 00:56:50:22 - 00:56:58:16 Stephanie Learning how to take care of your own needs and process those emotions even when they're uncomfortable because it feels uncomfortable. 00:56:58:18 - 00:57:03:02 Speaker 2 On Saturday mornings anyway, like you're already at anything. 00:57:03:04 - 00:57:06:16 Shaniqua Uncomfortability is looking at me already. 00:57:07:17 - 00:57:08:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:57:08:18 - 00:57:30:18 Shaniqua Well on that very insightful. No, let's take a quick break and we'll come back on, this discussing how we can embrace change. We'll make that a quick segment because we have been going, aren't we? Apparently we are in love with change, okay. Or at least inspiring ourselves and others to change. So we'll be right back. 00:57:31:20 - 00:57:38:05 Stephanie All right. We are back, and we are here to not stop the change. 00:57:38:07 - 00:57:44:08 Speaker 2 And take it. Move that kind of change. Bring change. 00:57:44:10 - 00:58:01:15 Stephanie But we do want to, like, bring this back around to why we're here talking about change and, Shaniqua, I know that you wanted to close out our last segment conversation with a few questions. What were your thoughts on that? 00:58:01:17 - 00:58:26:00 Shaniqua Yeah, let's let's do it. So, Stephanie, like, at this point, you know, we've we talked about change and how it happens defining change. For our audience in business and culture, in society and individually, should we fear change. What's your takeaway? 00:58:26:02 - 00:58:28:03 Stephanie I want to know your takeaway first. 00:58:28:17 - 00:58:56:08 Shaniqua Okay, okay. Well, okay. Should like. Now look at semantics. Should we? I would say no. Could we fear change? Very much so. But I don't think we should fear change. It's, something that occurs naturally. You know, not only in our individual lives but in, in, in nature. It happens in business. It happens in society. 00:58:56:10 - 00:59:23:09 Shaniqua I'm thinking about, like, one big change. I, I was listening to the history podcast, and, you know, they brought up the change in England from going from the Catholic Church to the Protestant church because Henry the Eighth wanted to divorce. They catch he wanted a son, you know, that brought a change in, you know, I could imagine maybe we would have been Catholic, you know, I don't know. 00:59:23:11 - 00:59:31:00 Shaniqua So I found that change to be quite interesting. I share that with my mom. So she knew who to thank for a Protestant Jesus. 00:59:31:02 - 00:59:32:14 Speaker 2 That's awesome. 00:59:32:16 - 00:59:35:13 Shaniqua But what what do you think about change? Should we fear change? 00:59:35:13 - 01:00:06:15 Stephanie I, I would say no as well. We we should learn to flow with change. We should understand. Like what change is within our control, what changes we have responsibility and accountability for. And then understand the changes that are literal. You know, I mean, I'm, I'm like super happy, especially living in Central Texas, every time there's anything that even feels remotely like a seasonal change. 01:00:06:15 - 01:00:06:22 Stephanie Okay. 01:00:06:23 - 01:00:11:20 Shaniqua What it I think we're in spring right now because it's cool at night and in the morning. 01:00:12:00 - 01:00:13:05 Speaker 2 You know, the birds chirping. 01:00:13:05 - 01:00:43:24 Stephanie You know, we've been having spring since December. Okay. Right off and on. And it just comes and goes. And you know, this is like there are changes that, you know, we naturally embrace that are naturally a part of the flow of our lives. And I think the more that, you know, just just like, for example, what we started with, with this podcast, you know, we took this break, this respite during a period when naturally in winter, you know, it's our winter season here, you know, and that we're coming out up into the spring. 01:00:44:01 - 01:01:06:02 Stephanie And so during that winter season, you naturally go inward. You you naturally, you know, kind of withdraw and reevaluate and plan and do this. And that's sort of a natural energy that's happening. Right. So to not it's like, is it better to flow with that or go against that. You know, it's like, and my opinion would be it's better to flow with those changes. 01:01:06:02 - 01:01:26:17 Stephanie Like to let them into your life doesn't mean that you stop doing everything that you're doing. It's just a it's just like allowing just things to ebb and flow in ways that fulfill us instead of just constantly draining us. You know, if we're in this state where we feel like we are constantly avoiding something or constantly having to do something. 01:01:26:19 - 01:01:27:03 Speaker 2 It's not. 01:01:27:03 - 01:01:31:16 Stephanie Sustainable. You know, that flow is really what is sustainable. 01:01:31:18 - 01:01:46:18 Shaniqua I could not agree more. I mean, so it seems like the way that you've described it, what we've researched, it seems like change is necessary. Like I think that's if you're not changing, maybe we should check your pulse. 01:01:48:07 - 01:01:51:23 Speaker 2 You know, like a real statement. 01:01:52:00 - 01:01:55:12 Shaniqua Are you okay? You have to change. 01:01:55:14 - 01:01:59:01 Speaker 2 Literally. Well, what I loved. 01:01:59:01 - 01:02:16:21 Shaniqua About, like, the earlier part of our show, you, shared how you've just took on the chaos of change. Maybe you could share with me in our audience, like, how to enjoy change. 01:02:16:23 - 01:02:18:02 Speaker 2 Yeah. I'm gonna go. 01:02:18:02 - 01:02:38:06 Stephanie Back to the one word that I use, which was curiosity. And you can start of allowing, to turn into a panic or an anxiety. Just be curious first. Like, why does this change have to offer for me? What can I learn from this change? What? Why am I avoiding it? You know why, why do I why do I feel afraid of this change? 01:02:38:06 - 01:03:08:07 Stephanie And like these curiosity questions can make it a lot easier one to be in touch with your own intuition, to develop that trust that you need to to really embrace change. And then also, I mean, I like to look, I like I, I like to be excited. I like to experiment. I like to have fun. I like to do like and certainly change can bring a lot of chaos that we don't want, but, you know, I lost my home to a flood. 01:03:08:12 - 01:03:18:00 Stephanie That was a big change, right? And it happened overnight all in one fell swoop. Right. And then the next day, everything is changed. 01:03:18:02 - 01:03:26:02 Shaniqua I love how, like, there's some things in life that, like most things like success doesn't happen overnight, but tragedy happens. 01:03:26:02 - 01:03:54:22 Stephanie Tragedy usually does happen like very quickly. Right? But then you're left with like, my home went away that night, but I had not adapted. I had not grieved. I, I had not yet changed. Right. I had to catch up to this change. And this is, you know, people experience this all the time. It's like it change does not happen overnight is an evolutionary process, which is why that one definition where it talks about is a spiral, is really actually a beautiful way to think about it. 01:03:54:23 - 01:04:18:01 Stephanie Because like, if we think about tragic change that we don't want that we're not asking for, anticipating or prepared for even. And then it is upon us and we have to react or respond to that change. Right. And the more that we can one be okay with change, even when it's painful, even when it's. But, you know, we all understand that like, death is a part of life, right? 01:04:18:03 - 01:04:49:20 Stephanie But how many people get caught up in fear of mortality? Right. And and it prevents them from making choices or experiencing their life in a certain way. And that fear of change where you just stay at a job for, like, way too long, even though it's burned you out, you're not getting anything from it. You're not. And it's like I talked to so many people who hold on to, again, that pain that they know for fear that there isn't a better right, that the change won't bring the the upgrade. 01:04:49:20 - 01:05:21:07 Stephanie Right. Because that's an expectation. So yeah, I think that we embrace that by being curious. Because if you're not even curious about what could happen, like what could happen if I left this crappy job that's burning me out and causing me to go home late at night, not see my kids and not talk to my spouse and whatever I'm existing on, or making me, you know, drink or eat in ways that I know aren't healthy for me or giving me life patterns that I'm basically avoiding this change. 01:05:21:09 - 01:05:37:24 Stephanie And then what does that costing you? What does it cost to get a divorce? What does it cost to have your health go decline? Like, what does it cost to not have strong relationships with your family member? Like all of these things have a cost, right? But we get walked into the costs. We know, I know what I'm paying for this. 01:05:37:24 - 01:05:40:07 Speaker 2 I think I know, you know, we. 01:05:40:09 - 01:05:49:24 Stephanie Usually we're not really curious enough to explore the full perspective we we become very defensively myopic. It's like. 01:05:50:07 - 01:06:00:18 Shaniqua Stephanie, I am so grateful that not not only are we podcast partners, but we're friends. And I get your wisdom. 01:06:02:08 - 01:06:11:16 Stephanie Wisdom and reflection. This is our whole relationship. Back and forth with each other is like your constantly learning and teaching from each other. And it's amazing. Like. 01:06:11:18 - 01:06:18:20 Shaniqua I remember we met Samara Dar. She has her mortgage company. We met. That's where at the, networking event. We met. 01:06:18:20 - 01:06:19:15 Speaker 2 Up. Yes. 01:06:20:03 - 01:06:38:21 Shaniqua I remember she shared with me that a successful relationship requires, both individuals, both individuals need to be able to be the student in the teacher. If one is always a teacher, that's. Yeah, there's always a student at work. 01:06:38:23 - 01:06:40:16 Speaker 2 But, yeah, it's like. 01:06:41:00 - 01:06:45:23 Stephanie I guess relationships are like that. That is the true. That is a true story, Samarra. Absolutely. 01:06:46:04 - 01:06:50:08 Speaker 2 Shout out to Samarra if you're looking for a home, get her up. 01:06:51:01 - 01:07:19:15 Shaniqua But my, my, I wrote this down. The quote that you said earlier. Make choices from trust, not fear. And I think that's what we should share leave with our audience when it comes to change. In the words of Stephanie Crain, aka The Corporate Mystic, make choices from trust, not fear. Stephanie, what can we expect in the upcoming episodes of season two with FITI? 01:07:19:17 - 01:07:46:20 Stephanie What our audience can trust that if they are experiencing change, big or small, personal or professional, that we are going to have a place for them to come and learn more about what they can do. What kinds of change is happening out there. We're going to we're really going to dive into this topic in this in the season. 01:07:46:20 - 01:07:48:14 Stephanie I'm so excited. 01:07:48:16 - 01:08:23:04 Shaniqua Yeah. Me too. I mean, and and I think I'm really thrilled about like, the season title, the architect and even the architecture of change, the architecture of change. We're discussing how our world is shaped through society, culture and business, and we're examining the key elements of change clearly from our thorough conversation today. Why change happens, how we adapt, and what it takes to actually move forward. 01:08:23:06 - 01:08:33:09 Stephanie Absolutely. I think, we just need everybody to join us. I think we're going to be publishing every Thursday. 01:08:34:17 - 01:08:44:04 Stephanie And, you know, they'll be like little snippets along the way. So, we're really excited about the season. Like I'm spinning. I can see myself spinning. 01:08:44:06 - 01:08:47:20 Shaniqua My knees bending I'm spinning, I'm standing up. 01:08:47:22 - 01:08:50:12 Speaker 2 Allowing myself to be okay. 01:08:50:14 - 01:09:01:04 Stephanie I am excited about this season. I am excited to dive into change. I want everybody to be as excited about change as I am. 01:09:01:06 - 01:09:26:23 Shaniqua I think they are. I think we all are about change. Right? Because it's it's it's, I feel like we're all on the curve. Precipice. There we go. We're all on the precipice of, like, transformation. And I think some of us, like myself, may are screaming to the tops of their lungs, like, why give me my structures? 01:09:26:23 - 01:09:27:16 Speaker 2 You know. 01:09:28:05 - 01:09:38:23 Shaniqua And there's some that's just, like, flowing. It's, a lot of us somewhere in between. But I think that we'll have. I think that we're ready for a change. 01:09:38:23 - 01:09:50:01 Shaniqua you won't want to miss season two, whether you're watching this on YouTube or listening or your favorite platform or tap that subscribe button, y'all do it. 01:09:50:01 - 01:09:55:18 Stephanie Subscribe. I think we will see you for the next show. 01:09:55:20 - 01:09:58:21 Speaker 2 Bye bye.